First season with Raptor blood

[RAZERWIREREPTILES]

Hello all this is going to be my first season dealing with the raptor bloodlines and i have a few questions about what would you get if.......

M-RE raptor X F-RRS tremper albino 100% het raptor......... is this female also call an aptor?

M-RE raptor X F-tremper albino 100% het raptor

M-RE raptor X F-tremper jungle het for RRS

M-RE raptor X F-tremper jungle


and could some explain when i get hatchling from thies combo if a leo hatches with 2 red eyes then is it called a raptor and if the eyes are normal then its called a aptor sry i know they seem like simple question but the whole aptor raptor thing is confusing me lol thanks for the help.

 

[godzillizard]

your going to get a ton of variation-from banded to jungle to stripes, reverse stripe and patternless stripes (expressing both stripe and reverse stripe) it's a super excitng project, since their are so many traits involved--both simple recessives and more complex line bred characteristics--you'll always get some sweet surprises...plus the occaisional red eyed hatchling The red eyes occurred as an unexpected by-product of the patternless stripe project--so they are totally unpredictable. Last year, out of over 50 geckos I hatched from my Raptor male bred to Aptor het Raptors and banded-jungle albinos het Raptor, I only produced 5 Raptors!?!

I don't call my reverse stripes het Raptor-Aptors, but they produce the same amount of 'Aptor' offspring as my Aptor females when bred to a Raptor male. So I do think of them as Aptors, genetically, because they are as close as you can get without technically being an "Aptor". I just don't call them Aptors

You'll get alot of answers just by working with/hatching them, but their will always be some confusion until the exact genetic makeup of the foundation animals is disclosed...

 

[RAZERWIREREPTILES]

Soooo....... your say i am gonna stay confused lol
i know raptor to a het raptor will make raptor 100% of the time right now say from that pairing i get no red eyed raptors are they still called raptors or what i just don't want to mislabel a leopard 1 thing and it be considered something else so i guess what i am asking is what would you call a non red eyed hatchling from the pairing stated above
raptor X 100% het raptor= 100 raptor if red eyed and what if not red eyed

i am not really to worried about the secondary look ie. stripe RS jungle banded and so on more of looking for a name for the hatchling

and as far as a raptor X nice tremper= 100% het raptors right?

thanks for the help like i said i know it may be a simple question but i have mainly delt with color/size morphs never anything as great as this project

 

[lytlesnake]

If you want to hatch some Eclipses and other cool stuff like stripes and semi-patternless het raptors, get a nice non-albino (normal or stripe, etc...) het raptor.

 

[boywonder]

only animals expressing Ruby-eye Albino Patternless(stripe+reverse stripe)Tremper(giant) and ORange can be called RAPTORs, and APTORs are the same but without the eclipse red eyes, any offspring that don't have all the above traits are NOT raptor/aptors, the offspring with ruby eyes and stripes are striped eclipse albinos but you can call them 100% het raptor because they still carry the genes to make a raptor when bred to each other

 

[RAZERWIREREPTILES]

hmmm..... ok so for this season i will not be working with anything but albinos so as far as worring about the eclipse trait showing up i will not have to deal with that this season and yes i know what r.a.p.t.o.r. stands for ty on that but if i am understanding you let just go this route
RAPTOR + RAPTOR =
you will get eather red eyed or normal eyed
red eyed= RAPTOR
normal eyed = ????
and are you saying that if a raptor hatches out with pattern then it can not be called a raptor so even though i have seen jungle raptors for sell they are not raptors? sorry for so many questions this is just important that i understand this befor any hatch out again thank you all for the help.

 

[lytlesnake]

hmmm..... ok so for this season i will not be working with anything but albinos so as far as worring about the eclipse trait showing up i will not have to deal with that this season

Well, eclipse isn't something to worry about, it's a good thing! I'm just saying that you might get bored hatching all albinos. A normal het raptor will give you all sorts of cool geckos, and the investment is minimal. Some of my favorite geckos I hatched last year came from a normal het raptor that Kelli gave me when I bought some aptors and a raptor from her. I bred her to my raptor and got some great babies from that pairing.

 

[boywonder]

by defenition, a raptor is patternless and anyone selling jungle raptors hasn't got a clue, they are jungle eclipse albinos if they have red eyes

 

[gko reptiles]

It has become the nom in the industry that if the gecko has red eyes it is considered a raptor. Whether a jungle raptor, a reverse stripe raptor, etc. Like I said call them what you want but it has become the norm. And please don't say if we call them that we don't have a clue. We know what they are don't label us as idiots.

 

[gko reptiles]

By the way I think you are trying to open up a can of worms here for people so please mods watch this thread.

 

[Mel&Keith]

*watching*

Yes, technically a Raptor has Ruby eyes and hatches without any pattern. Many people market geckos with other patterns as Raptor Jungles, Stripes, etc. when they should really be saying Ruby Eyed Jungle, Stripe, etc.

This has been discussed numerous times in other threads so there's no need to argue about it here.

 

[RAZERWIREREPTILES]

o.k. so to close this out before ppl get upset....... overwhat i am not sure...
is it ok to just market raptor hatchlings as
red eyed raptor hatchling
and
non red eyed raptor hatchling
i am not worried about patterns just looking for what to call a non red eyed raptor hatchling

to boywonder.... i am not sure where you are going with your comments about eclipse albinos i think that brings more confusion into the subject because IMO most ppl when they hear eclipse they think of the non albino version of the raptor so saying eclipse albino does not go to gather well but to each his own...

thank you all who tried to lend a helping hand with your information..

Razerwirereptiles

 

[Mel&Keith]

Yes, it does get confusing. Some people are referring to the solid colored (red or black) eye gene in the Raptor line as Eclipse eyes. ie: Albino Eclipse Jungle or whatever. I think the intention was to make things less confusing or more technically correct but it's confusing a lot of people.

All that aside, a Raptor without Ruby eyes is an Aptor (it has to hatch without pattern) so you would label it an APTOR het RAPTOR if one of the parents was a Raptor.

If the father is a RAPTOR and you get babies with patterns other than Patternless Stripe (AKA (R)APTOR) just label them as whatever pattern they are het Raptor or Ruby eyed whatever pattern they are if they have red eyes.

I hope that made sense!

 

[RAZERWIREREPTILES]

Very cool thank you so much that is the point i was hopeing to get to thank you all again

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Stripe X Reverse Stripe makes a new variation called "Patternless Stripe" (another word for the Aptors pattern). This is the same exact thing that happens when we got Reverse Stripes from Jungles and/or Stripes IMO. Reverse Stripes are not the combination of the two, obviously. They came from Stripes, as a totally new variation.

The same goes for "Patternless Stripe", it is a "new" pattern, not the combination of Stripe and Reverse Stripe. That does not make sense to me, and very few appear that way, to be honest. You can not breed two patterns together, and have them "magically" combine in one animal. That is not how it works. It takes the combination of genes to produce the "new"(Aptor or Raptor) type, but I would not say that they are displaying two patterns.

This is the way it works, as we can see from the history of their "evolution". Jungles produced Stripes, Stripes created Reverse Stripes, Reverse Stripes(and/or Stripes) create "Patternless", and Patternless Stripe creates "Ruby Eyes". I really do not think that Stripe AND Reverse Stripe was needed, we would have eventually seen the "new pattern", and then the eye mutation, come from these lines. RT just beat us to it! LOL

About the pattern/lack of pattern: I have found that very few Patternless Stripes, or Aptors, hatch without a pattern. That does not make them any less of an "Aptor" tho`. Usually it is a dotted and dashed pattern resembling another pattern like a Reverse Stripe. So to say that a gecko like this (pictured) is not a "Patternless", for having some pattern on her, is incorrect. This is one of the geckos that looks a little like it is both striped and reverse striped, AND hatched with a pattern. Not very many of them look that way, and alot of them hatch with some patterning, so we really should not be giving people this idea IMO.

I have hatched a good enough number of "Patternless Stripes" (from the original project, which proved nearly identical genetics to Aptors), and Aptors, I can state this with confidence, from my experience.

I think all of the naming is pretty self explanatory. "Raptor" has become a word referring more to the eyes, than anything else. So a "Jungle Raptor" would just be a Ruby Eyed Jungle Albino. I think everyone can understand. I do think that saying "Ruby Eyed" is much better than saying "Albino Eclipse", but even that pretty much explains itself. I think "Raptor" should be used only for Ruby Eyed Aptors, and Eclipse, only for the non-Albino ones. Then it should be "Ruby Eyed ( insert Pattern)" or "(insert Pattern) Eclipse", but that`s just me. Everyone is different.

Just trying to help!

 

[godzillizard]

You could also just show a picture of the gecko for sale, with a # instead of a name, and also show pics of the parent geckos--that way you wouldn't have to classify each gecko as some rediculously long name that simply describes whats obviously visible at a glance...

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Indeed, but more than likely someone is going to want to know exactly what pattern/morph the gecko for sale is. Not everyone knows the names of each pattern/morph, and alot of people seem to learn by looking at examples, on others websites, classifieds, etc.

 

[boywonder]

groovy gecko, you're spot on, call them by their pattern and eye colour, not just lump them all together, i personaly prefer the look of a RERS (RubyEyeReverseStripe) to RAPTOR and they should get the respect they deserve. RERS is a morph in its own right and embers (ruby eye tremper patternless) are super cool:main_cool3: