Frustrating Temperatures

[Spots]

OKAY
So I'm sure everyone is sick of heating questions but I still can't figure this out.

The temperature in my room varies soooo much. The UTH only reaches 85. I have a BLUE MOONLIGHT bulb on 24/7 because that is the only bulb that does not get too hot and helps the temp reach 90 (barely reaches 90 sometimes...)

My question...is the blue moonlight bulb okay to use 24/7? On the back of the box it says...helps with breeding...it was suggested from the petstore but that one line concerns me because my babies are too small to breed or ovulate. I don't want it to "mess" with their bodies. Should I just switch to a white light and use a dimmer so it doesn't overheat. this would also help the babies know the differences between night and day right? as I don't get any sunlight where their tank is.

Thanks a million!


P.S I have wrapped tin foil over my UTH too! AND I have the heat on in my room...nothing will make their tank temps higher lol

 

[Dog Shrink]

Get a larger/better heat mat. I have been leaving my blue bulb on 24/7 the last couple weeks just 'cause we haven't turned the heat on yet, it shouldn't do them any harm as the point to the blue is it puts out no recognizeable light to the leo. Altho since you don't have natural light in your room, you may want to consider adding another light source, say maybe a regular 15 watt incandescent bulb on a timer to help regulate a proper day/night cycle. Something else you can consider if you're worried about the blue light is to use a ceramic heat emitter insted of a bulb to help make the temperature you need if you don't get a larger/better uth. I think the uth would be cheaper tho if I remember correctly the last time I bought a ceramic heat emitter it was pricy.

It would help knowing the size of your tank and the size/wattage/brand of your uth.

 

[Brewboy74]

The first question is where are you measuring the temp at? It should be measured at the floor. Ambient temps aren't as important as floor temp.

 

[Spots]

Get a larger/better heat mat. I have been leaving my blue bulb on 24/7 the last couple weeks just 'cause we haven't turned the heat on yet, it shouldn't do them any harm as the point to the blue is it puts out no recognizeable light to the leo. Altho since you don't have natural light in your room, you may want to consider adding another light source, say maybe a regular 15 watt incandescent bulb on a timer to help regulate a proper day/night cycle. Something else you can consider if you're worried about the blue light is to use a ceramic heat emitter insted of a bulb to help make the temperature you need if you don't get a larger/better uth. I think the uth would be cheaper tho if I remember correctly the last time I bought a ceramic heat emitter it was pricy.

It would help knowing the size of your tank and the size/wattage/brand of your uth.

First, Thanks for your help...I also read you advices on here lol
Secondly, I believe there is a difference from blue bulbs and the moonlight bulb. I think you can get regular blue bulbs that are just tinted blue? but this one says it helps stimulate breeding behaviour...I'm not sure if I should be concerned with that. I switched to red but it got too hot so I'm buying a dimmer today and will maybe just use the red light 24/7. That's okay too right? I know they can't see red and stuff...(you don't need to go into debate about the colour of the bulbs, I've done some homework ) I'm just asking whether or not it's okay to use it 24/7

When you say use an incandescent, do you mean on top of the cage or just in the room so the room is brighter (like daylight). I've been trying to find one but am having no luck finding a 15 watt.


The tank is 20gallon. The heat mat is...extroterra I believe, I don't have the package as I have had it for a couple years now but since I switched to tile, the temps aren't as high. The wattage...I'm not sure because like I said, I don't have the package. I've thought of switching heat mats but it's kinda stuck on there pretty well lol. I had another tread about how to remove it, so if it's necessary then I've gotten some advice on that already. (I was going to redecorate and move the UTH but then decided not to). I'm just concerned that the next heat mat will do the same.



Side topic...I've noticed someone's (there are two babies in the same cage) poop that comes out looking like raisins...very dehydrated. I have two water dishes so should I try to get her to drink by dropping water on her nose? Problem is, I don't know which baby it is. Also, should I add a larger one that they can bath in?

 

[Spots]

The first question is where are you measuring the temp at? It should be measured at the floor. Ambient temps aren't as important as floor temp.

Sorry, I assumed everyone on here knew to measure floor temp so when I said temp, I was referring to floor temp too.

 

[Spots]

oh...this may be a really dumb question...can I plug a lamp to a dimmer to a timer then into the wall? I have the timer already, I'm going to get the dimmer...but if I can't then I will just look for smaller wattage bulbs lol

 

[Dog Shrink]

You can put either a lamp in the room near the leo or another dome lamp on the tank. If you can't find a 15 watt which IS hard, then maybe a 25-40 in a lamp inthe room could help with day/night cycle. There is a debate over the infra red bulb and whether or not it can strain the leos eyes. I did see a thread of some one who actually tested this theory and his results were impressive. I wouldn't leave a red light with a leo on 24/7 because of his testing results. Sorry I can't recall the specifics of the thread. My blue bulb is also a moonlight bulb, and the box says "simulates natural moonlight" and "stimulates breeding behavior" as well BUT I think the reason they say that is because of the noctournal nature of leos they're more likely to phase seasons by the amount of moonlight maybe? Longer nights= winter, shorter nights= summer but if you're using it 24/7 that would make that point moot.

As far as the 2 babies together thing and the rasins... this is the reason you generally don't want communal housing with leos. You never know who's giving you what... My leos poos sometimes look fat and juicy, others look like twisted dry-ish rat terds. I notice I tend to get the twisted ones on days when I dust versus don't dust, maybe that plays into it. I would mist the tank more just to make sure that both babies are getting sufficient water. I know Eros' bowl is always at least half empty but I don't know if he's drinking it or if it's evaporating but I mist every other day when I feed him and I do see him licking the water offa the floor and the moss so it can't hurt. I don't know that a larger bowl for soaking is really a good idea. They could drown if not careful.

As far as the heat mat, I swear by the cobra mats. 100 degrees constant consistant heat output. I have vinyl tile in my tank and never have a problem hitting temps. The reason I suppliment with the heat bulb is I like keeping his tank a little warmer (around 95-96) for the brighter colors is makes my leo. Do you have any type of insulation under your heat mat on the outside of the tank so the heat is all directed upwards and youi're not losing anything thru the bottom? I use a piece of plastic styrofoam, but you can use the insulated board that you put on the house before you do siding, or even some use tin foil.

Lastly yes you can plug a lamp into a dimmer and that dimmer into a timer. Just make sure you have the dimmer set properly before the timer turns on that lamp to make sure you're not roasting your leo on accident.

So you read my advice on her aye? Well I'm no pro, but I do a LOT of reading on the matter and listen to the pros advice so I'd like to think I have some good points to offer just don't ask me about morphs 'cause then I'm useless :main_yes: besides I like helping out fellow canucks I live in Pa but I was born in Montreal.

 

[Fencer04]

You shouldn't have a problem plugging the dimmer into the timer at all. I would say that you are better off getting a thermostat instead so that it regulates things based on current temperature but a dimmer isn't a bad alternative for less money.

As for your temps. I would get a new heat mat. It should be getting much hotter even with low ambient temps.

 

[Spots]

I have tin foil around the heat mat. Might add styro foam but I don't want anything to over heat.

I read about the bath thing on the caresheet at the top of this site but I've never heard of it being suggested so I was just curious.

GAH. why can't my heat mat just hit the right temps. sigh

Also, I have another option...but I will need advice on this one too. Currently, the babies are in my room and I am gone most of the day so it's pretty quiet in here for them. It is rather dark like I mentioned and it is one of the coldest rooms in the house. I have thought about whether or not to move the geckos. My concern is, first, the stress of a new environment. Second, the warmest and brightest room is the living room...which is also the noisey-est (wow. how do you spell that lol). It obviously has the most amount of traffic as I live with two other roommates who have nothing better to do but watch tv. And if we have gatherings, I don't like the idea that the babies will be in the same room with drunk noisey people.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Most heat mats won't generally get over 100 if properly working so using something that is designed to be an insulator won't over heat. Remember we're 98.6 and if you keep your hand on a piece of foam board it isn't going to melt it. Just don't use the cheap styrofoam like the stuff they pack with stereos that crumbles into little balls when you break it.

I would be hesitant to leave my leos in a common room with a bunch of drunk loud people too. I have mine in a room off the living room (we call it the dog room since that's where their food bowls are, my son's mouse colony is in there, and it's a thru way to one of the doors to the bathroom) so not a lot of traffic but a moderate bit. The dogs moreso than people. Eros was tub raised then went into a natural 20L tank when I got him at 7 mos old. It took a bit longer for him to acclimate to all the openness and new surroundings (honestly I think he still is to a degree but getting MUCH better) about coming out and checking things out like when I go in to feed the dogs at night he peeks his head out like "where's mine", BUT I would worry more about ignorent roommates hurting him or tapping on the glass and stressing him. He's better off in your room imo. It's easier to modfy your room rather than modify your room mates in the long run.

 

[Daedric1]

Blue lights are fine to use...but I wouldn't use them in your room.

Blue light has been shown to negatively affect human sleep patterns.

 

[Brewboy74]

Sorry, I assumed everyone on here knew to measure floor temp so when I said temp, I was referring to floor temp too.

I know to do that, but I don't know that you do. The post didn't give that info and there isn't anyway for me find out without asking.

 

[Dog Shrink]

A lot of people make the mistake of placing their heat probe in the wrong area Spots. It's something we generally ask anyone who is asking about a heating problem. Never assume the person you're talking to knows how to do anything right until you ask. I am glad to hear tho that you knew where it should be. Good for you

 

[Spots]

haha yea I know. I just totally forgot to mention it. But now that I've insulate it with tin foil and styro foam, it has gone up a few degrees...but it's also been warmer yesterday so I'm not sure what made the temp go up. But now it's at 89...should I continue to try to increase the temp up? I feel like it's still too low but I'm almost running out of options. Just bought a dimmer too butttttttttttt I have a second floor in the tank so it just makes the upper floor warmer lol I didn't think that through lol

 

[Dog Shrink]

You need to be between 90-93 minimum honestly. I try to keep mine at around 93-95 'cause I like him more brightly colored Selfish I know but he's a beauty. I have multi levels in my tank as wellyou'll need multiple probe thermometers to properly gauge ambient temps and floor temps.

Im not entirely understanding this part tho "Just bought a dimmer too butttttttttttt I have a second floor in the tank so it just makes the upper floor warmer lol I didn't think that through lol" What makes the upper floor warmer? Lighting? Can you post a pic of your tank set up?

 

[Spots]

Oh sorry...let me explain.
So lower level has the heat mat...which by itself only goes to 85.
Then there is the second level.
I used to use a heat lamp AS WELL as the heat mat to get the temp to 89..(It's so hard to get it to 90). So I bought a dimmer so I could get a larger wattage bulb and dim it to hit 95. Problem is, I put in a second level recently, over the warm side, so now when I use the lamp, it just heats up the second level (since obviously, the floor of the second level is now like a "ceiling" to the first so the lamp doesnt really heat up the first floor.


BUTTTT I'm really frustrated. This morning I left and the temp was 92 (must have just been a warm morning cause it is never 92) and I come back home and it's 85.

help ..lol

 

[Dog Shrink]

Try a ceramic heat emitter... more heat, no light and maybe move the second level to the cold side if you can. Also you may want to consider upgrading your UTH to a larger or higher wattage model.

 

[Daedric1]

Take out the second level, or restrict it to being on just the cool side and/or middle of the tank. There's really no need to make your warm side complicated.

Ceramic heat emitters do work but I find they aren't nearly as efficient as red lights. They seem to heat the air a bit (which can be useless if there's a lot of air circulation in the room) and heat the surfaces of the tank very little. I use one in my female's tank during the summer because less heat is required, but during the cooler months the red light is needed to bring my temps up.

 

[Spots]

The way I constructed the second level, it doesnt actually fit on the cold side.

I just read in another thread about how different tiles hold heat differently (another one of your posts, Kel lol) What were you saying about ceramic tiles? Whats the "best" tile to use. Maybe I'm losing heat through my tiles. They don't fully lay flat on the glass and they are stone tiles.

I have red lights but don't use them much. I'm so concerned over the whole light debate that I just want to get rid of using lights all together but that means raising the temp from the UTH somehow.

Ceramic heat emitters ...never heard of them but I'll do some research.

Can't really upgrade the UTH because it's already 1/2 of my 20 gal tank. I may look into a different brand and/or wattage but have not been out to the pet stores lately.

But I'm curious about the differences in tiles. Care to share? I'll do some searching on the threads in the meantime lol

 

[Dog Shrink]

Tile density is what is going to determine what the heat distribution is like. I use to install carpet and tile. Cermaic and porcelain tiles don't hold heat as well as marble or slate tiles will because they are much too porous altho highly durable. Natural stone tiles hold heat better but they will also dissipate the heat thru the entire tile surface rather than just make a warm "spot". So if you have a 12x12 marble or slate tile the whole tile will get warm whereas with the vinyl simulated slate tiles (like what I have in my tank) the thermodynamics of vinyl is, well plastic, and plastic is not a good conductor of heat so you will get spots of heat insted of heat evenly distributed thru the entire vinyl tile surface.

As far as trying to increase your UTH temps with out increasing the size of your mat any further you'd need a higher wattage mat. For example cobra heat mats. There is the cobra brands thru T-Rex then there is the cobra heat mat thru the original manufacturer ultratherm. Biggest difference is this...

Cobra T-Rex heat mat

For the 6x11 size it is only a 7 watt out put mat, whereas with the ultratherm 6x11 you get 12 watts of power.

Cobra Heat Mats
Europe's #1 heat mat for more than a decade is now available from T-Rex Products. Cobra Heat Mats are made from incredibly reliable, accurate copper elements that provide uniform even heat distribution. Designed to be used in or out of terrariums, these mats operate at a constant 100 degrees fahrenheit.

T-Rex Cobra Heat Mats are available in 5 different sizes.

Mini Vivarium 3 Watts 4 x 5 inch
10-20 gl. 7 Watts 6 x 11 inch
30-40 gl. 12 Watts 11 x 11 inch
50-60 gl. 20 Watts 11 x 17 inch
Over 60 gl. 28 Watts 11 x 29 inch

For the ultratherm cobra heat mat:http://www.amazon.com/TREX-COBRA-HEAT-MAT-30-40/dp/B0002AQTBW

You will see that for the same size mat it is a 12 watt mat insted of 7 watt for the 6x11. Higher wattage means higher heat output. Altho the amazon listing does say T-Rex it is inaccurate because only the ultratherm comes in a black box. The T-Rex with the lower wattage comes in the flaming box.

Sooooo use the link I provided to the amazon site and order the ultratherm cobra heat mat with the higher wattage. I'd even feel comfortable going up to the 11x11 20 watt size as that would only take up about a little less than a third of your 20 long tank. You may need a thermostat to help maintain proper temps as THIS one could get too hot. I'm also considering upgrading to that size as well myself. Make sure you read all the measurements and output wattage ratings on the ultratherm box and compare it to the stats I listed for T-Rex cobra mats and you'll see the dfference.

Hope this helps.