Having an ethical dilemma

[T&KBrouse]

Hey everyone.

I'm having a bit of a "crisis of purpose" I guess you could say and I was hoping some of you could offer some advise that could maybe help in my decision.

My husband and I have been avid herpetoculturist for, good grief... years and years now. We've put alot of time, love and thought in to our collection. We are hobby breeders. This year we have two boa mommies and a ball python mom that we are expecting babies from. All the moms are doing wonderfully an we're anxiously awaiting baby day. We keep meticulous records on our babies and handle every one of them and should someone want one of our babies, we encourage them to come over and handle each one until they find one that "calls" to them.

We've built a pretty good reputation for our babies. We have six families on our list, waiting for these sweet little ones to be born and grow enough to go to their new homes.

We have Woma pythons and Dumerils boas that will be big enough to breed next year.

High quality, healthy and well handled babies. What more could anyone ask for, right?

Well, heres the other side of the coin:
Not only has word gotten out about our babies and how we care for them, but people also know they can come over and just hold the animals and learn about them. This has helped alot of people get over their fear of reptiles and invertebrates and as you know, the best advocates are reformed haters. LOL

About six years ago, someone contacted us about taking a snake they could no longer keep. Of course we said we would take her and shes been with us ever since. Somehow, not sure how, word got out we were a good home for wayward reptiles and people started coming from miles away to rehome their pets with us. They all get the love and attention they could ever need and we have our vet on speed dial in case of emergency. Alot of these rescues go with us on presentations to advocate responsible reptile ownership. Some of our rescues are adopted out to loving families. Some of them will stay with us for life.

I'm by no means a religious person, but I am very spiritual. The rescues keep coming in and people and organizations keep calling for presentations and I can't help but wonder if this is the Creator's way of telling me we've learned the basics of what we need to know, now it is time to open our hearts and our home to the ones that don't have a home anymore.

I've revamped our website completely and changed the status of our EIN to non profit. (Yes, the push from a higher power is that strong)
http://www.mayantraders.com

Heres my dilemma:
I still have these beautiful, healthy breeding projects that we are expecting this year and are lined up for next year. It seems unthinkable to follow through with those projects now. It seems so unethical.

What would you do in this case?

I hope I explained the situation well enough. Please let me know if it seems I've missed something.

 

[acpart]

I greatly appreciate how much you've thought about where reptile love is taking your life. I also see my collection in a spiritual way and feel that I have the wonderful opportunity to have chunks of different earth environments in my house (I once gave a talk to my religious community comparing how one looks at fish in a tank vs. how one looks at fish in a pond and how that relates to how we look at the world and how God looks at the world).

That said, I had to read what you wrote a couple of times to figure out what the problem is, and I can come up with 3 possibilties:
--are you concerned that breeding and selling is somehow antithetical to sharing and educating?

--are you worried about selling and how that will impact your non-profit status?

--are you concerned that with all these rescues coming to you, how can you bring more creatures into the world?

It's only the last one that seems to be something to consider ethically and I have some thoughts, but I thought I'd wait to see which one it is for you.

Aliza

 

[T&KBrouse]

Thanks, Aliza, and you're right. It is the last one that really is tearing me apart. I'd love to hear your input on this.

 

[T&KBrouse]

Now this is going to sound REALLY stupid:
Would it be unethical to still do the breedings and when babies are sold, put it towards the reptile and invert center?
Kind of an "All proceeds go towards maintaining the MT Rep & Invert Center" type policy?

I'm really sorry if I'm coming across unclear about everything. I'm not the most articulate and it takes me actually brainstorming with others to fine tune what the issue is and how to make a good decision.

Thank you all in advance for all your input and patience.

 

[acpart]

As far as the "all proceeds" I think you can do that if you really want to, but I imagine that probably all of your money you get from sales is already going to maintaining your collection and providing for food and housing (and oreo cookies for your beardie that I'm still laughing over).

The reptile population issue is another thing altogether and one I think about, as in "how can I produce all these leopard geckos when I regularly see leos on craigslist that people want to get rid of?" After thinking about it, for me it's a bit like eating meat: I know all the arguments for being a vegetarian, they all make sense to me, many of my friends are vegetarians but I still eat meat, mostly because I like it. I do try to make good choices about where I get the meat from and also don't eat it often. My feeling about my gecko breeding projects is that I'm producing a fairly limited (under 50) number of healthy, interesting looking geckos, I'm getting new people interested in them, I'm providing a reasonably priced alternative to the unhealthy pet store geckos (in at least 2 cases I was someone that people turned to after having a pet store gecko die shortly after purchase) and I must be doing something right because I"ve sold out by mid Jan. every year for the last 4 years. I figure this reasoning is somewhere between the honest truth and a really great rationalization.

The place where I draw the line for myself is that I don't plan to breed bearded dragons. That's mostly because they lay an awful lot of eggs, the husbandry and space requirements is enough greater for beardies than for leos that fewer "average" people can handle it, and consequently even more beardies are on craigslist or being poorly treated by ignorant people. That's not to say that no one should breed beardies, it's just how I"ve decided to do things.

Another way to look at it is that you are breeding quality animals, you are succeeding in finding homes for them or keeping them and that to counter balance all the back breaking work of feeding, cleaning etc., you really love doing this. There may come a time where the rewards of breeding no longer outweigh the knowledge that there are a lot of reptiles already out there, or you begin to feel too strongly that you don't want to add to the population. Maybe I"ll become a vegetarian some day. Until that day comes, I feel you should continue to breed responsibly and enjoy your hobby.

Aliz

 

[T&KBrouse]

I must have read over your post 20 times, Aliza. It makes alot of sense.
I don't breed them every year. The mommas that have babies one year are given a break the next year to make sure they're good and healthy. We've kept things small, so even if the Womas and the Dumerils do give birth, we'd still have under a hundred healthy, well handled babies.
I think I'll stick with doing what I love doing and doting over these beautiful animals as much as I can, share them with anyone who will listen, pray for guidance, and have faith that God knows what he's doing.

Thank you, Aliza. You gave me alot to think about and I really appreciate your perspective and advise.

Oh, on a lighter note, I need to ask: Is it normal for beardies to like cheesecake? Or is this, once again, a Dharma thing?

And I'd love to go vegetarian, if meat just weren't so darned tasty...
If you find tofu recipes that don't taste like butt, please let me know.

 

[Alusdra]

I think you've brought up some very valid points. Personally, I am very worried about all the breeding of various reptiles that goes on. I feel that at some point, the market has to saturate- leos should live for over a decade. Hopefully they are not all dying from poor husbandry before that. And with all these breeder animals retired at only a few years old... where do they go?

I think it's a great thing you are doing with education and rescue. I don't know if you can do both, from a time perspective. Or if you should, from an ethical perspective. Ultimately it's going to have to be a decision that you come to, however. Some breeding is definitely beneficial- when it is well managed and for the benefit of the species in question, like the AZA Species Survival Plan.

 

[T&KBrouse]

Thank you, Alusdra. These are all the issues I'm taking in to account and trying to muttle through.
I've even thought, "Okay, I won't breed the ball pythons and Red Tail boas anymore, as they are the ones we get in as rescues most often. But what about the Dumes and the Womas? They are more rare in the reptile industry and produce small litters/clutches. Would it be unethical to breed them every other year?" (Boy I hope that didn't come out wrong)

And I understand completely where Aliza was coming from with not breeding beardies. I have the same rule with Savannah monitors. I have a wonderful male and a gorgeous female, but babies can be picked up for $15 a piece and their mortality rate is so high because there isn't that much good information on them.

So if you were in this position, would you call it quits after this season and focus exclusively on the rescues?

 

[acpart]

Oh, on a lighter note, I need to ask: Is it normal for beardies to like cheesecake? Or is this, once again, a Dharma thing?

And I'd love to go vegetarian, if meat just weren't so darned tasty...
If you find tofu recipes that don't taste like butt, please let me know.

You cracked me up again! Any beardie that eats oreos (I imagine that's who it is, right?) would certainly eat cheesecake. It reminds me of a parakeet I had once who would eat anything including turkey soup. If I ate a peanut butter sandwich on rye, he'd fly over and be on the other end picking out the caraway seeds.

The secret to tofu is to marinate it in something tasty. I use a lot of teriyaki sauce and stuff like that. It's gross plain. If you use a good sauce, you can throw it into a stir fry and it's really good, or cut it in thin slices, fry it up with onions and mushrooms and serve it in a sandwich.

Happy eating (you and Dharma)

Aliza