Helping My Leos Grow!

[DaBoss]

Hey guys me and my girlfriend actually bought 3 leos for our lil girl cuz she loves pickin them up and playin with them since shes from west palm beach and they run around freely. We've had them for about 2 months now and we got them from petco. Umm....for starters they hate crickets but they love mealworms....so i've actually started a mealworm colony and thats going good. Got some waxworms they love those 2, but my main concern is everybody has leos with super fat tails. I dust the mealworms and i feed then probably at most 10 each and as they are growing and shedding just fine im just wondering why their tales arent so fat! i want them to have super fat tails. Can someone help me or explain to me a proper way to get them to get bigger? as i said theyre not into crickets and im scared of superworms cuz i dont want them 2 eat their stomachs inside out. Im guessing my leos have to be about uhhhhh 5 or 6 months old at most. Pleasee help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[grboxa]

the superworms eating out the stomach is a myth I heard, your fine in that aspect. Although they can bite and read they have hurt some geckos in the process of feeding. You can crush the heads of superworms so they wont bite. If your going to go with supers, make sure you alternate something else in for variety, there very poor in nutrition. My honest opinion would be to get silkworms aswell and feed them here and there, they are pricey and I realize you have 3 leos but they add great weight/size to your gecko WITHOUT the high fat content like supers and mealies have and there amazing in nutrition, both my leos are growing great on silkworms. If you can go meal/supers(when old enough)/silks that would be great in my opinion. Or even roaches if your in america!. Are you dusting your mealworms?.

 

[scm133]

Be sure your temps are good. They have to have a 90-92 hot side in order to properly digest foods.

 

[andrew5859]

Superworms are great feeders and will absolutely NOT eat your geckos from the inside out. Unlike what Grboxa said superworms are great in nutrition but a variety is great for a leos diet so you could feed supers and mealworms if you would like. I feed dubia roaches and superworms and the roaches are probably the best you can feed your gecko nutrition wise. Just be careful with wax worms as your geckos can get addicted to them and will refuse to eat anything else. I would only feed them as a treat.

As for a fat tail it honestly depends on what morph of leo you have. I have SHTs that have super fat tails but have a few raptors that weigh more but have skinnier tails. So dont worry too much about it :main_yes: Just be sure you keep your temps around 90-95 on the hot side with an UTH. Are they housed together? What size tank?

 

[DaBoss]

20 gal or bigger im not realli too sure but its big....yea theyre housed together...and as i said before i dont even kno wht species i have lol i have pics of them from when they were smaller ill post if u guys want?

 

[andrew5859]

Just make sure they each have a hide on the hot and cold side and a humid hide and they should be okay. When they get older (or now pending age) you will need to make sure you dont have multiple males. If you have a male and keep him in with the females he will try to mate with them and possibly hurt them and cause them a lot of stress. The general rule is 10 gallons per gecko but bigger is always better. Sure you can post the pics here or over in "Show off your Leos" section. You will most likely get more opinions over there. What substrate are you keeping them on?

 

[fl_orchidslave]

A lot of folks feed superworms with no issues and their nutrition is good. Any feeder in excess is not good. Regular feedings of gutloaded insects will get the growth up for your geckos.

 

[DaBoss]

Thanks guys....and the substrate is just paper towel lol.... u kno i put so m any different hides for them but they all love to curl up under this one rock and idk y but they dont fight or anything that just all go under there and relax ima take a pic right now so go look out in the show off section!

 

[grboxa]

Andrew where are you getting that superworms are rich in nutrients?. Superworms have extremely low calcium levels with a very hight fat content, generally a poor feeder in nutrition in regards to other feeders, this is not new information every nutritional chart will tell you. Agreed though, gutloading will help in nutrition. I dont have anything against feeding them because everything should be moderated in the diet. A staple of anything like laney said isnt good.

Superworms are convenient, cheap and easy to keep, that is why there so popular. Again I am not disagreeing with feeding superworms or mealworms everything should be moderated in, I'm only against waxworms, its basically feeding lard to your gecko. The info below I have been seeing everywhere aswell told in person , these are not MY words.



" Superworms are the larval stage of a larger species of Darkling Beetle. Contrary to popular belief, superworms are NOTHING like regular mealworms. They have less of a chitin shell, but are addicting and have been known to contribute to Obesity and Fatty Liver Disease. Because of this, only one or two superworms should be fed a week to your gecko. Insects sold as food for insectivores are often nutritionally poor and very fatty; examples include mealworms, king mealworms, ‘superworms’, and waxworms. "

Obesity is very common in leopard geckos, this is quoted from a website by a medical association.

"Some carnivorous reptiles such as leopard geckos are voracious eaters and easily become obese. Leopard geckos primarily eat insects in captivity; this leads to problems when the insects are too fatty or if the animal is allowed to overeat. Earthworms, slugs, and calcium-enriched crickets are decent food choices; minimize mealworms (all varieties) and waxworms.

Obese reptiles can actually develop severe illness due to accumulation of excessive fat and cholesterol in their organs".....

http://oregonvma.org/care-health/obesity-exotic-animals is the link. It is a very good read just to go through and understand.

 

[im faster]

i just saw your pictures and tour geckos are just fine. your not gonna get a huge tail until they are adults.. and it takes time to grow

 

[andrew5859]

Andrew where are you getting that superworms are rich in nutrients?. Superworms have extremely low calcium levels with a very hight fat content, generally a poor feeder in nutrition in regards to other feeders, this is not new information every nutritional chart will tell you. Agreed though, gutloading will help in nutrition. I dont have anything against feeding them because everything should be moderated in the diet. A staple of anything like laney said isnt good.

I agree a staple of anything is not good. I keep getting that information from everywhere. Here is a site that shows multiple website and companies charts.
http://chamownersweb.net/insects/nutritional_values.htm if you look at this chart it shows from multiple different websites that mealworms and supers have almost the same fat content. All charts are different in some respect to this so dont rely solely on what a chart says.

Superworms are convenient, cheap and easy to keep, that is why there so popular. Again I am not disagreeing with feeding superworms or mealworms everything should be moderated in, I'm only against waxworms, its basically feeding lard to your gecko. The info below I have been seeing everywhere aswell told in person , these are not MY words.

Superworms are anything but cheap! http://www.mulberryfarms.com/ Here I can buy 1000 mealworms for almost half the price of 1000 superworms. I am not asking you to agree with feeding them just please stop telling other people that they are bad for their gecko when they are not. I agree with not feeding waxworms as a staple as they can become addictive.

" Superworms are the larval stage of a larger species of Darkling Beetle. Contrary to popular belief, superworms are NOTHING like regular mealworms. They have less of a chitin shell, but are addicting and have been known to contribute to Obesity and Fatty Liver Disease. Because of this, only one or two superworms should be fed a week to your gecko. Insects sold as food for insectivores are often nutritionally poor and very fatty; examples include mealworms, king mealworms, ‘superworms’, and waxworms. "

Obesity is very common in leopard geckos, this is quoted from a website by a medical association.


"Some carnivorous reptiles such as leopard geckos are voracious eaters and easily become obese. Leopard geckos primarily eat insects in captivity; this leads to problems when the insects are too fatty or if the animal is allowed to overeat. Earthworms, slugs, and calcium-enriched crickets are decent food choices; minimize mealworms (all varieties) and waxworms.

Obese reptiles can actually develop severe illness due to accumulation of excessive fat and cholesterol in their organs".....

http://oregonvma.org/care-health/obesity-exotic-animals is the link. It is a very good read just to go through and understand.

This is coming from a website that says Leopard geckos are carnivores, that is wrong they are insectivores. It also says earthworms and slugs are a decent choice for our "carnivorous" leopard geckos. I think even a person new to leopard geckos would know that this was wrong. I would not use this site for care nor info if I was paid to.
The first site states that "examples include mealworms, king mealworms, ‘superworms’, and waxworms." are fatty too. What does that leave me to feed if I were to listen to that site? Superworms are not addicting to leos like wax worms. Just to add also I have never seen an example of a obese leopard gecko. They tend to eat only as much as their stomachs will allow so if you could give me a link to an "obese" leo I would love to see it.

 

[cook75]

I agree a staple of anything is not good. I keep getting that information from everywhere. Here is a site that shows multiple website and companies charts.
http://chamownersweb.net/insects/nutritional_values.htm if you look at this chart it shows from multiple different websites that mealworms and supers have almost the same fat content. All charts are different in some respect to this so dont rely solely on what a chart says.


Superworms are anything but cheap! http://www.mulberryfarms.com/ Here I can buy 1000 mealworms for almost half the price of 1000 superworms. I am not asking you to agree with feeding them just please stop telling other people that they are bad for their gecko when they are not. I agree with not feeding waxworms as a staple as they can become addictive.





This is coming from a website that says Leopard geckos are carnivores, that is wrong they are insectivores. It also says earthworms and slugs are a decent choice for our "carnivorous" leopard geckos. I think even a person new to leopard geckos would know that this was wrong. I would not use this site for care nor info if I was paid to.
The first site states that "examples include mealworms, king mealworms, ‘superworms’, and waxworms." are fatty too. What does that leave me to feed if I were to listen to that site? Superworms are not addicting to leos like wax worms. Just to add also I have never seen an example of a obese leopard gecko. They tend to eat only as much as their stomachs will allow so if you could give me a link to an "obese" leo I would love to see it.

Not much of a difference between Carnivore and Insectivore. Those worms are fatty compare to other food item like crickets, silkworms, hornworms, roaches, phoenix worms. Earthworms and slugs are fine if you would be able to get them from a good source. There are some pictures of obese geckos on this forum, you just have to look through the posts.

 

[Dimidiata]

Waxy are fatty, feed once a week maybe.
Mealies are a ok staple so long as you mix with others
crickets are a good staple to mix with mealies
supers are better then mealies imo
Dubias are gods food.
silks are great.


Thats what i know, im not arguing this topic AGAIN lol. Your leos look FINE imo, they have the perfectly thick tails, your doing good. Just keep up the suppliments(calcium,CaD3,vitamins) and temps. Provide them with hides regardless, always insure a humid hide is available. I still love you SHT.

 

[grboxa]

I dont get why multiple people take what I say and twist it out of context. When did I say there not good to feed to your gecko at all?, I didnt. All I simply said was there a poor feeder in nutrition compared to the rest of the feeders, + very low in calicum and have high fat content where if fed to much can cause problems such as obesity and fatty liver disease. All this is known information. I havent said anything that isnt already known. Thats why I keep stressing that its important to feed variety. Dont jump to conclusions and assume I'm saying there bad to feed to your gecko period, no I am not. I'm just stating facts. Theres plenty of other feeders you can feed. To mention a few, silkworms/hornworms/phoenixworms/dubia roaches/crickets... So dont give me that foolishness about what other feeders are you left with, regardless, that response from you was basically from an assumption that I stated never to feed supers or mealies. And for you to say obesity is not a factor in leos means you dont know much and you sound very ignorant. http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=80336&highlight=obesity+leopard+geckos&page=5 is an example of a thread with pictures of a obese gecko, alot of good information. Can SOMEONE please jump in and agree with me about obesity? I know im not alone on this subject leopard geckos are vicious eaters, they will and can over eat....theres alot of information about obesity. If you'd take the time to read and learn youll find out instead of bashing information and look foolish.

This sums it up perfectly in that thread

"We most certainly overfeed our geckos. People equate fat geckos with good health, when the reality is just the opposite. The first several years I kept leopard geckos they were fed a diet of crickets and never did they get big and fat. They were very healthy and I always had excellent fertility and egg production too"....


Its good to learn:main_thumbsup:

 

[cook75]

Obesity is a very common problem in leopard geckos. Most people don't realize their geckos are overweight. It becomes more obvious when they reach adulthood. It's a silent killer just like in humans. Their tails should never be wider than their neck. Health problems don't occur early in age, it's in the long run. A big problem in captivity is they don't have the space to hunt and being fed worms in a dish or hand fed just makes them lazier and inactive. Worst of all it shortens their life span.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Feeding-A-Leopard-Gecko-101---What-You-Need-To-Know&id=6287506

 

[andrew5859]

!

I dont get why multiple people take what I say and twist it out of context. When did I say there not good to feed to your gecko at all?, I didnt. All I simply said was there a poor feeder in nutrition compared to the rest of the feeders, + very low in calicum and have high fat content where if fed to much can cause problems such as obesity and fatty liver disease. All this is known information. I havent said anything that isnt already known. Thats why I keep stressing that its important to feed variety. Dont jump to conclusions and assume I'm saying there bad to feed to your gecko period, no I am not. I'm just stating facts. Theres plenty of other feeders you can feed.

I know that you stress variety and I do also, its a great thing in any animals diet. You just pick on superworms like theres no tomorrow! To a person trying to educate someone that has no clue on what to feed their leo and you tell them "there a poor feeder in nutrition compared to the rest of the feeders, + very low in calicum and have high fat content" that would make me not want to feed supers at all, which is wrong.

To mention a few, silkworms/hornworms/phoenixworms/dubia roaches/crickets... So dont give me that foolishness about what other feeders are you left with, regardless, that response from you was basically from an assumption that I stated never to feed supers or mealies. And for you to say obesity is not a factor in leos means you dont know much and you sound very ignorant. http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=80336&highlight=obesity+leopard+geckos&page=5 is an example of a thread with pictures of a obese gecko, alot of good information. Can SOMEONE please jump in and agree with me about obesity? I know im not alone on this subject leopard geckos are vicious eaters, they will and can over eat....theres alot of information about obesity. If you'd take the time to read and learn youll find out instead of bashing information and look foolish.

This sums it up, im quoting an administrator KelliH of this forum but I couldnt of said it any better.

We most certainly overfeed our geckos. People equate fat geckos with good health, when the reality is just the opposite. The first several years I kept leopard geckos they were fed a diet of crickets and never did they get big and fat. They were very healthy and I always had excellent fertility and egg production too..... hope u dont mind keli


Its good to learn:main_thumbsup:

I NEVER once said obesity is not a factor in leopard geckos. It is a factor in all creatures. I said it is not common in leopard geckos which is true and you know it. Sure leopard geckos can be obese if fed a poor nutritional diet and that was the case in the thread you quoted. Being someone that feeds superworms as a norm to my geckos I will defend this all the way. (dont run with this sentence, I do feed a variety) "And I know it?" Clearly I dont if I am arguing this and still feeding my geckos superworms along with the many other members that agreed with me in the other thread you tried to convince everyone else on. Im the one that sounds ignorant and foolish? You're the one that is going around telling everyone that superworms are of bad nutrition and you know it and was explained to MULTIPLE TIMES by other members including myself that supers were of better nutritional value than what you state. I know that I am defending this like I own a superworm company but I know where I stand with this and this is the second time I have debated this with you and I am done. I would like this topic to be over and done with for the last time but if you feel the need to further discuss it please PM me.
I like to learn and I do with every new topic posted believe me, but you need to slow down and learn a little yourself too:main_thumbsup:
My apologies to Daboss for jacking his thead! You have some very nice looking leos!

 

[grboxa]

still misunderstanding what im trying saying then and now, but whatever you say:main_thumbsup: my apologies for the thread jack aswell .

 

[Dimidiata]

Yes, leos get fat, are we all happy now? Ok, moving on.