Hermaphroditic leos?

[JennBW]

Hi,

Okay - so this one has both me and my vet puzzled. I've had my leo for 11 years and I have always thought she was a female - no femoral pores, no preanal pores, no hemipenal bulges. When she was about 5 years old, she stopped eating temporarily, and so I took her to a vet who actually gave her an ultrasound to show me that she was gravid and her eggs were simply pressed against her stomach, making her feel full (or something along those lines...it was some time ago). In any case: confirmation that she is indeed female.

About a year ago, I noticed bulges near the tail side of my gecko's vent that weren't there before, and so I took her to the vet - a new one, as we had since moved. The vet took one look and said its nothing to be concerned about, "she" is just a male gecko. WHAT?! I told her how she had been pronounced gravid by another vet via ultrasound, and even noted that she still doesn't have any femoral or preanal pores. The vet said that sometimes males don't have these pores, and that leopard geckos can sometimes be very difficult to sex. But what is still perplexing is why the bulges didn't appear until she (he?) was 10 years old.

Any thoughts? I'm actually a wildlife biologist, and am fascinated by quirks of nature. That said, I would love an explanation for this!

Thanks!
JBW

 

[katie_]

If you saw eggs, its a female.

 

[SC Geckos]

Did the gecko lay eggs? I have seen geckos re absorb ovulations many times but never once they have been shelled and are actually eggs.

 

[JennBW]

I should mention that the second vet said that sometimes fat deposits in the belly can be mistaken for eggs in an ultrasound...still doesn't answer why the bulges developed so late, or if she is indeed a he. As I said, both my vet and I are puzzled.

And she (he) has never laid eggs in the 11 years I have had her. Which I didn't find suspicious, as she is housed alone and I know that geckos reabsorb unfertilized, developing eggs. Hmm...

 

[SC Geckos]

I should mention that the second vet said that sometimes fat deposits in the belly can be mistaken for eggs in an ultrasound...still doesn't answer why the bulges developed so late, or if she is indeed a he. As I said, but my vet and I are puzzled.

Could be a dumb question but I will ask anyway.... This is a reptile vet I assume?
Maybe he was a very late bloomer?? lol.
Do you have any clear ventral pictures of the gecko? I am a little puzzled why the vet said that leopard geckos can be hard to sex. I think they are very easy compared to many other reptiles.

 

[katie_]

Fat and eggs look VERY different on an ultrasound.
I would be very suspecious of both vets TBH.
Can you post a picture of your geckos vent?

 

[JennBW]

Hi folks,

I know - this is all very suspicious indeed. Both vets are reptile vets...well, I should clarify: they are domestic vets that also do exotics including reptiles. Both vets appear to have extensive experience with herps, and the first one breeds herps as well.

See attached for a picture of my gecko's vent. As I mentioned - definite bulges, but no pores. And the bulges didn't show up until a year ago (when "it" was 10 years old)!

Thanks!
JBW

 

[Phoenix1115]

I'm stumped! :main_robin:

 

[katie_]

I would say female.
Those dont look like normal bulges, and if they didnt show up until 10 years I would be inclined to say its just the way her tail is aging.

 

[Phoenix1115]

Only one way to tell for sure!

 

[Ozy]

Yea.. I agree with Katie. Those don't look like normal bulges.

 

[JennBW]

Thanks for your input. It's so weird, I know! The vet (second one) pulled back the skin over top of the bulges and was like "what do those look like to you?" and they did sort of look like testes, but at the same time, I've never closely inspected a male leo's parts before...

So are these bulges something to be concerned about, or is it normal for female leos to develop bulges later in life?

Cheers,
JBW

 

[katie_]

The bulges would be caused by hemipenes, which you can google and look at. They look like little worms to me, not testes.
I wouldnt be concerned as long as shes happy and healthy. Shes 10 years old? I wouldnt worry
I hope she has a unisex name lol.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I have an '07 Murphy Patternless female that was hatched here at Golden Gate Geckos, and she has produced many fine babies (eggs) for me. In 2011, she ovulated but would not breed with the male she's been with since she was old/big enough to breed... all she did was fight him. In 2012 she didn't even ovulate. When I was checking my girls last December, she wasn't ovulating, but I saw some hemipenile bulges and definite pores. I thought I had inadvertenetly mixed up geckos, but everyone was accounted for. I had one less female and one extra male. I 'popped' her and there were not only two hemipenes, but sperm plugs as well.

I thought I was losing my mind, but I remembered several years ago another prominent breeder called me freaked out that one of her females had turned into a male. I was like, "Ohhhh-Kaayy". I then emailed Ron Tremper, and he thought I was simply mixing up geckos. So, I called another very prominent breeder and he told me this has happened to him twice! So, I wasn't going crazy after all!

I contacted Dr. David Crews (Crews Labs, Texas, the guy who figured out temperature sex determination in leos) and he vaildated this phenomenum 100%. He sent me several scientific papers to read, and his labs are able to change females into males with hormone treatments. Not only that, but there are legitimate cases of hermaphroditic leopard geckos, as well as a leo that was female on one half of the body, and male on the other half.

Who knew..... ?

BYW, the photo looks like a male to me, or if it's a female she may have plugged/infected scent glands. Too bad you aren't nearby so I could 'pop' her/him!

 

[SC Geckos]

Very interesting Marcia. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Gembodh]

I think your gecko sex is male.

 

[Phoenix1115]

THAT'S INSANE

 

[DrCarrotTail]

How cool! Thanks for sharing. I love science and nature

 

[Geckowoman]

This is SOOO interesting!! I had never read of such a thing, but I know it is possible in some animals, nature is a crzy thing for sure"

 

[j&k lemmy]

Some frogs can do gender change outs, some reptiles simply don't have males whip tails & mourning geckos

This was part of the plot in Jurassic Park...