Het RAPTORs

[mlw50]

There's another post on this board about breeding het RAPTORs together. Then someone said there's no such thing. Can someone please explain the cross and explain the probabilities? Do the traits follow the Law of Independent Assortment or does RAPTOR assort together?

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

Of course there's such a thing- there's no such thing as a het raptor (assorted together). Independent assortment of two genes- Tremper and Eclipse (and technically PRS) but anyways... het raptor = het tremper, eclipse

so if people think a het raptor was one gene then:

het raptor x het raptor = 25% normal, 50% het raptor, 25% raptor= which are the genotypes, the phenotypes would be 25% raptor, 75% normal (66% het raptor)

with the real way het raptors work, it would be:

het tremper, eclipse x het tremper, eclipse = 6.25% Normal, 12.5% Het. Eclipse, 6.25% Eclipse, 12.5% Het. Tremper, 25% Tremper, Het. Eclipse, 12.5% Eclipse Het. Tremper, 6.25% Tremper, 12.5% Tremper, Het. Eclipse, 6.25% Raptor. (genotype) so ya

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

O
with the real way het raptors work, it would be:

het tremper, eclipse x het tremper, eclipse = 6.25% Normal, 12.5% Het. Eclipse, 6.25% Eclipse, 12.5% Het. Tremper, 25% HET Tremper, Het. Eclipse, 12.5% Eclipse Het. Tremper, 6.25% Tremper, 12.5% Tremper, Het. Eclipse, 6.25% Raptor. (genotype) so ya

oops

Phenos: 56.25% normals (66% het tremper, 66% eclipse), 18.75% eclipse (66% het tremper), 18.75% Tremper (66% het eclipes), 6.25% raptor.

 

[fallen_angel]

How could there be no such thing? I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but who in the world told you that? We have two het. RAPTORs breeding this year ourselves, we have hatched one Tremper albino and one RAPTOR.

Ours though, are actually Tremper albinos het. RAPTOR.. so our odds are different.. with Davey's explanation, it would be like taking a Tremper albino het. Eclipse x Tremper albino het. Eclipse in our case.. I think.. lol

So if your "het. RAPTORs" are BOTH albino, you will produce:

25% Homozygous Tremper, (Tremper albino)
50% Homozygous Tremper, Het. Eclipse, (Tremper albino het. Eclipse)
25% Homozygous Tremper, Homozygous Eclipse (RAPTOR)

hope I got that right..

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

Right right. What he's asking is if the het becomes an assorted het. Like a real "het raptor", not a double het tremper, eclipse. You see what I'm saying?

It's like when people say Tremper het Raptor- it's not really het Raptor, because it can't be a Tremper and het Tremper at the same time. We all know what they mean, but 'technically' they're het Eclipses. We're all guilty of saying het Raptor incorrectly every now and then. I do it all the time. It gets the point across.

However RT has said that the Diablo Blanco morph is an assorted morph.

there are unique DB genes. It is no longer a BB or a Raptor. It is not het for BB or het for Raptor.

but he also says this:

You can breed pure white, red-eyed, Diablo Blancos together for years and you are not going to get BB or Raptor offspring.

Says nothing about getting Raptors if you breed a DB to a Raptor. This is my first year breeding DBs, but it would make perfect sense to get Raptor offspring from a DB x Raptor.

Just like you can get a LVPat from a MSLVPat x LVPat. I have yet to come across an "assorted gene" combination.

 

[mlw50]

I think what the person meant by "there's no such thing" was that het RAPTORs don't follow the 3:1 ratio of a monohybrid cross but instead follows 9:3:3:1 of a dyhybrid cross.

 

[fallen_angel]

Ohh okay, I see what you are saying now

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

I think what the person meant by "there's no such thing" was that het RAPTORs don't follow the 3:1 ratio of a monohybrid cross but instead follows 9:3:3:1 of a dyhybrid cross.

yes, but I don't think most people would understand that terminology

 

[fallen_angel]

it rings a bell

 

[mlw50]

That's the thing. I had no clue what they were talking about when they said "het eclipse het tremp" and then started throwing around percentages. Then I made this post and started to think about it in terms of genetic crosses and figured it out. By 9:3:3:1 I mean 9 normal: 9 eclipse: 9 tremp: 1expresses both. It's prob easier to think of as a ratio than as percentages.

 

[lindy]

?

so I think i understand.

I have two females an APTOR and a jungle(tremper) I want to breed to a RAPTOR.
So what would I get? They will all be trempers right and maybe get lucky and get a RAPTOR?

I also have an unrealated question. I have two normals one is het for tremper how do you label the babies just normals or do you add the het? to the title?

thanks for the help

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

You will need a raptor male, and they will all be trempers or aptors depending on who the mom is. All will be het raptor, it will be a two year project.

If it's 100% het, then you label it normal het tremper

 

[lindy]

yes the male is a RAPTOR.
so I will get what the females look like? (jungle and APTOR)

and how do i know if he is 100% het tremper or not. I bred him with a jungle tremper last year and all the babies were baned trempers. THis year he is bred with a normal female. So the babies would be normal het tremper?

 

[Wandering Paddle]

This would all be so much easier if Ron Tremper didnt give this morph a stupid name like R.A.P.T.Or in the first place... he could have easily left them as eclipse and eclipse albinos. And the "P"... what made him think saying patternless would be a good idea? They are NOT patternless. I love the way R.A.P.T.Ors and A.P.T.Ors look, i just hate the confusion surrounding their genetics...

 

[mlw50]

Ok, so lindy, from what I understand RAPTOR=eclipse tremper and APTOR=tremper albino. If you bred your APTOR to a male RAPTOR the offspring would all be APTOR(tremper) heterozygous for eclipse. To get a full RAPTOR, you would have to breed these offspring back to eachother or back the father. If you breed them back to eachother 75% will be APTOR and 25% will be RAPTOR. If you breed back to the father 50% will be APTOR and 50% will be RAPTOR.

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

This would all be so much easier if Ron And the "P"... what made him think saying patternless would be a good idea? They are NOT patternless. I love the way R.A.P.T.Ors and A.P.T.Ors look, i just hate the confusion surrounding their genetics...

Classic raptors ARE patternless, they have no pattern, but that doesn't mean they carry the murphy patternless gene. The patternless stands for patternless red stripe (prs), not murphy patternless. It's like with hypos and shtcts, they don't have patterns, so they're patternless right? But they're not murphy patternless. PRS is a line bred trait. This is a classic raptor- no pattern.

Now-a-days there are banded raptors, jungle raptors, but these aren't really raptors, they're just tremper eclipses. It's like calling a shtct with spots a 'spotted shtct'. But you see that contradicts itself because you can't have a spotted super hypo. It doesn't make sense right? But ya. that's that.

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

If you breed them back to eachother 75% will be APTOR and 25% will be RAPTOR. If you breed back to the father 50% will be APTOR and 50% will be RAPTOR.

That's also not true. Look back at our %'s or 9:3:3:1 discussion, whichever you're more comfortable with.

 

[BlackDiamondGeckos]

This would all be so much easier if Ron Tremper didnt give this morph a stupid name like R.A.P.T.Or in the first place...

First off you may not want to say bad things bout other breeders. They don't take that lightly here. Secondly, if breeders didn't coin morph names then some gecko morph would be pretty long- and how would you know which morph name gets said first? For a DB people could say Tremper Blizzard Eclipse, Blizzard Tremper Eclipse, etc. You just get used to it.

ex.
Dreamsicle: Snow Tremper Eclipse Enigma
Super Raptor: Super Snow Tremper Eclipse
Super Nova: Super Snow Tremper Eclipse Enigma

 

[lindy]

so im still confused a bit

:main_huh:
So what is the difference in a aptor and a tremper albino? Is the aptor just patternless tremper?

Im thinking aptor can be het for eclipse, am I wrong.
So
the crossing with a raptor male and a aptor female(she is from a jungle tremper by APTOR) would be ?
the crossing with a raptor male and a jungle tremper female(she is from jungle tremper by jungle tremper) would be 100 % hets right..

So all the babies would be trempers right? and i would breed them back to the RAPTOR and I would get what percentage of raptors and what percentage of everything else.

If there is a website the explains the raptors please tell me.
Thank you in advance for helping me answer this question.

 

[Wandering Paddle]

Classic raptors ARE patternless, they have no pattern, but that doesn't mean they carry the murphy patternless gene. The patternless stands for patternless red stripe (prs), not murphy patternless. It's like with hypos and shtcts, they don't have patterns, so they're patternless right? But they're not murphy patternless. PRS is a line bred trait. This is a classic raptor- no pattern.



Now-a-days there are banded raptors, jungle raptors, but these aren't really raptors, they're just tremper eclipses. It's like calling a shtct with spots a 'spotted shtct'. But you see that contradicts itself because you can't have a spotted super hypo. It doesn't make sense right? But ya. that's that.

i understand the "patternless" in the aptors and raptors being polygenic, but i still think he should have left "patternless" out of the name because it just confuses people... Murphys patternless should have been the only one