holding your gecko stressful?

onebettarepublic

New Member
Messages
37
Location
Fl
Okay I bought my gecko to hold, sorry I just don't see why you'd have and pet you couldn't hold.
But was reading up on taking a gecko out(like to the petstore) It was just a thought cause people really take and interest in pets and i would love to show him off(what can I say Im proud of my Chance, he is so cute and I do feel after the initial settling moment he enjoys interaction) However i was reading a very negative comment about even handling geckos

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Geckos are not pets, they don't get tame (in any meaningful defintion of that word), they do not like enjoy being handled, and they do not 'like' people (although they might learn to associate a hand with warm temps and/or food). They are simlpe animals incabalbe of deveopling emotional relations to human beings.
Therefore geckos (and that includes leos) are best left alone in their cages, except when handling is nescessary (cleaning etc.) - "

Do you guys handle you geckos for enjoyment?
My son loves to hold his fat tail, that's why i bought it for him.
I admit it's not eating well. But i hold mine daily and they are eating fine.
 

fuzzylogix

Carpe Diem
Messages
2,115
Location
Dallas, TX
we have over 200 leos and every single one gets handled almost daily. we do however leave the babies alone for a few weeks because they think they are tough and can eat your face. there are people that say they are just cold blooded animals with little or no thought process, but having been around reptiles all my life, i'm inclined to think there is more there. granted i also agree that you can't "tame" any reptile, however i do believe that you can get them to realize that you are not a predator. geckos like most animals rely on their "fight or flight" instincts in most stressful situations. once they realize that you aren't going to eat them, handling gets much easier. and usually the older the leo gets, the more docile they become. i'm sure other people will chime in on this subject. it's been an ongoing debate for years and years. i have a friend who never had reptiles before he met me. now he has nearly 15 leos, some blue tongues, dart frogs, and a beardie. he gets his geckos, skinks, and beardie out daily and puts them on the couch with him while he watches tv. they probably have no idea what is going on, but it makes him happy. if it makes you happy to handle your leo, i say do it...
 

GeckoGathering

GrizLaru
Messages
4,323
Location
Indiana
handling is part of enjoying

i do believe that you can get them to realize that you are not a predator. i'm sure other people will chime in on this subject. it's been an ongoing debate for years and years.
If it makes you happy to handle your leo, i say do it...


Certainly agree!
As a hobbyist and not a gecko profitier..I say.
Handling is part of enjoying as far as I'm concerned,
along with observing their activity,
watching new life hatching, and a occasional trip with me,
under my hat to the post office.
I see very little enjoyment if only housing, cleaning,
and throwing a handful of worms to them.
Take care. HJ
 

Butterfly_babe4200

New Member
Messages
44
Location
Miami
I say handle him with care and beware anything can spook even a calm gecko into biting. My dog barked at something and caused my Albie to bite me on the cutical nail (OUCH). With time they relax just train and handle in short 15 min sessions and as it relaxes extend the adventures.
 

M_surinamensis

Shillelagh Law
Messages
1,165
we have over 200 leos and every single one gets handled almost daily.

I think an important distinction can be drawn between what you do and what Onebettarepublic was asking about. The distinction basically comes down to two factors; assessment and control.

The assessment portion comes down to... well, the fact you have two hundred leos. You know the conditions that are healthy for the species, you recognize things that are unhealthy. You know how long they can remain outside of the ideal environment and suffer no ill effects, you know when they're showing those subtle and nuanced signs of distress. You have knowledge and experience that is sufficient to assess how much of what kind of handling with what frequency is appropriate. That can take some time to develop and not everyone has the same ability.

You also handle the animals, primarily, where you keep them. In the confines of your reptile room, your facility or your home. An environment where you have control over the conditions which exist. The other people present, the temperature, other animals, the height off the floor or above a table or counter, indoors. I think you'd recognize that there's some loss of that control even at say... a reptile show, although in that scenario it's a quantifiable and predictable change. Going out in public though, the general public... to a pet store or H.J.'s brand of absurdity where he shoves a gecko inside his hat*... that introduces enormously risky unpredictable elements. It is impossible to know when you might step around a corner and encounter a person so phobic of reptiles that they're going to lash out at your pet without thinking. It means uncontrolled environmental conditions, heat and light and air conditioning that is totally beyond the control of the gecko owner. It means places where one second's loss of attention can mean an animal which walks out of or off of our hands to disappear forever in or under something that makes retrieval impossible. It means the risk of encountering other animals, which may be predatory. A place like a pet store means that any concept of quarantine is completely destroyed.

It's unpredictable. It's potentially dangerous. It doesn't benefit the animal at all to be carried around. So not really the same as what you do, Shawn.

It's a subject that comes up every so often with boids, there are those owners who wander around in public with a python over their shoulders, to the extreme detriment of the animal's health and well being. No good for the animal, definitely no good for the public perception of reptile keepers as responsible pet owners. They are living entities, they aren't fashion accessories, they aren't tools for shock value and they aren't doo-hickeys that can be pulled out to impress others with how cool your toy is. Dress better, give yourself a mohawk or buy an i-phone if that's the kind of responses you're looking to get. If constant companionship and interaction is what someone's looking for out of a pet, they should get a dog. They shouldn't get a reptile and neglect what is best for it in order to fulfill some obscure desire of their own that it is totally unsuited for. It's possible to appreciate them for what they are without trying to force them to be something else.

*Anyone want to start a betting pool for exactly how the leopard gecko he eventually kills by doing this will go? I'm betting hitting a pot-hole in the car and bumping his head against the roof, but there are lots of options, including; wind blows his hat and gecko clean off his head, someone flips out at the surprise lizard and kills it, the gecko gets cooked between his sweaty skull and the tent formed by his hat, something falls and lands on his head, dropped from head height to land in a way that breaks something and the ironic gets eaten because some other jackass was wandering around using a python as a necktie.

Edit: Asking about it is a much better choice than just doing it... so there's nothing inherently wrong with the thread inquiring about taking a gecko into public. There's just something potentially wrong with actually doing it most of the time.

Edit 2: Onebettarepublic, I believe I read in another thread that you keep fish, if I'm not mistaken. Controlled handling in your home is a lot like watching your fish tank; your presence affects the animals but in a very low key, predictable kind of way and if you see any signs of distress, you can easily correct things. Bringing them with you when you go out would be exactly like putting your fish in a bag and doing the same thing. Sometimes there's a good reason for it, like a trip to a vet's office or if you were going to sell an animal at a show. Usually it's just stress and risk with no purpose. It might be okay, but there's a lot of ways it also might not be; best not to do it without a good reason.
 
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Chosen010

FANATiC
Messages
57
Location
Lubbock, TX
m_surinamensis....
Your posts always intrigue me.. Your writing... eloquent, and I can tell much thought goes in to how you word everything. Just wanted to say I'm often somewhat impressed..

Oh and I'd have to say I'd agree. For the sake of the conversation and while it's been eluded to, the exact scenario could play out that someone comes up to you in the pet store where you have your gecko and wants to touch it, it leaps off of your hand in fear and you no longer have your beloved pet. Bad idea..

And as for the quarantine concept... I don't even take my lab to the pet store. 80% of casual pet owners don't regularly visit the vet for checkups and carelessly take sick animals into pet stores and walk them around attempting to "show them off"..
 

gothra

Happy Gecko Family
Messages
3,790
Location
HK
I agree with what Seamus said. I hold my geckos ALL THE TIME, but I never force anything. If they aren't willing to climb up and stay on my hand voluntarily, I'll put them right back into their tank. The most exotic trip we make is just a brief visit from the gecko room to the living room (to say "hi" to my husband who is always in front of his computer). And for such a short trip, because the environment is different, the gecko might also behave unexpectedly. The sound from the TV or even my husband turning his head to look our way is enough to spook the gecko to jump. I guess what I'm trying to say is, you need to spend time to learn how your gecko behaves and earn your trust with them. Plucking them off from their habitat and then go around to show-n-tell is definately not a good idea.

I have 11 geckos so far, about half of them don't "like" being handled so I leave them alone. Do I never pick them up? No I do give it a try when they're lying out in the open. But as soon as they show signs that they aren't happy, I let them go. And over the years, I've learned that the best way to earn their trust is to never hold them tightly. The gecko will feel safe with you if you allow them to move as they wish. ;)
 

jerrymb

New Member
Messages
232
Location
New Jersey
My gecko sits on my shoulder calmly while I clean out his tank. He sits on my shoulder when I'm watching tv or on the computer. He doesn't looked stressed or unhappy at all.
 

fl_orchidslave

New Member
Messages
4,074
Location
St. Augustine, FL
I believe some reptiles have a disposition that is tolerant of being taken out of their controlled environment. However, it also requires extensive knowledge and experience on the part of its owner. There are days they may be grumpy, for whatever reasons, and an experienced owner would know not to subject it additional stress factors or even handle if not necessary. Personally, I don't take my leopard geckos out of the house unless it's a trip to the vet or a show. Bearded dragons seem to enjoy outings, so if you want a lizard to venture out in the public with, harness type leashes are available for their safety.
 

sunshinegeckos

New Member
Messages
1,683
Location
Clearwater, FL
I only take mine out in their room and only for a few minutes a day (usually to do a visual check and to get them used to me) and I usually just hold them over their cage where if they decided to bolt they wouldnt get far. I also have cats and dogs that would just love a reptile snack so they dont go out of my room. Only time I take them out of their room is to go to the vet and I will sometimes take them to the reptile store where I got them.
 

PaladinGirl

New Member
Messages
427
Location
Michigan
I NEVER take my geckos out of the room we keep them in. With that being said, I don't hold my little fat tail at all unless I have to clean his tank. He's way too tiny, fast, and not used to my hand yet. Toon on the other hand, I hold her a few times every day because she climbs onto my hand willingly. Sometimes she doesn't want to crawl onto my hand and so I leave her alone until she shows interest.

Guests I want to show the lizards off to have to come to the room I keep them in, but they're not allowed to hold. I also have dogs that would enjoy a lizard treat, so I have to make sure they're not around. They're actually one of the main reason I don't take Toon out of the room. I also have a 5-year-old daughter who is fairly trustworthy, but I still keep the tank locked (it has sliding doors on the front, so I installed a lock). If Toon did happen to get away, there are not many places for her to hide in this room.

Also, she will sometimes start to get anxious after a bit, and I can tell because she'll start moving around faster. At this point, she goes back in her tank. I also never move more than 5 feet away from her tank when I'm holding her. I would never take her out of the house. That's what dogs are for; they're bigger (in most cases, haha), usually more predictable, and it's more likely you'll be able to "reason" with them. My guess is that a fleeing gecko (or any reptile) is not going to come to you when called or bribed. And it's true, a LOT of people freak out over reptiles.

I will say that maybe someday, despite the fact that some declare it unsafe, I will be one of those people that lets my gecko ride around on my shoulder while doing things. Right now Toon is still too young; we're still getting to know each other. Other pets will have to be gone--as in, dead gone LOL. It's highly likely that given the age of my dogs that my geckos will out-live them anyways. There's also a lot of debate whether or not it's safe to let reptiles interact with other pets such as dogs and cats, but that's for another thread I think lol..

So that's my take on handling geckos, which is pretty much what most people on here have said I think :D
 

M_surinamensis

Shillelagh Law
Messages
1,165
In the fall of 2001, an acquaintance of mine, a man I knew as a result of mutual participation in another area of interest, conversationally mentioned that he kept reptiles as pets. He had leopard geckos and a bearded dragon, corn snakes and a couple ball pythons. He said he was thinking about crested geckos and a carpet python. He had been casually keeping them as pets for a couple years and expressed an interest in my animals when I mentioned what I was keeping (at the time, it was pretty expansive actually).

He was invited to my house, brought into one of the rooms I was housing reptiles in and I gave him permission to look around. He pointed to a bin containing a young white lipped python, asked what was in it, got a response and pulled the bin part way out to take a look. The python, being what it is, popped out through the opening. Mouth closed, little snake (a little shy of three feet long and they're very thin at that age) just doing what they sometimes do when housed in a rack.

This guy though... the one who was telling me about his reptile pets and how he'd been keeping them for a couple years... he got startled. Not even scared really, he wasn't frightened of snakes, just startled by something unexpected.

He twitched and he slammed the bin back. Problem being, my snake was still perched over the edge, with about a foot of its body and head outside of the bin. This broke several ribs and caused some spinal damage. Pinched, it began thrashing around and large swathes of skin and tissue were torn away as it struggled.

Reptiles can display some amazing regenerative capabilities when injured, but my own assessment was quite bleak. That, combined with the recommendation of my veterinarian resulted in the snake being euthanized about three hours after the incident. It was extremely unlikely that it would have lived through the night, the euthanasia was a kinder option than allowing it to remain in pain any longer than was necessary for the veterinary consultation and confirmation of its condition.

The thing about this story though, the part that's relevant to this discussion, is that surprised people respond without thinking. The guy who crushed my snake was a reptile hobbyist himself, he knew there was a snake in the bin and he was still shocked into a response. He wasn't afraid of snakes, he didn't have a phobia or a hatred, he just wasn't expecting what happened. Now imagine the possible responses of everyone in the world... everyone who doesn't expect a lizard, everyone who might have a phobia or a hatred, everyone who is going about their business suddenly confronted with a surprise encounter.

I witnessed a man turn and punch a water dragon that was sitting on another man's shoulder on Fremont Street in Las Vegas, he was apologetic and he was phobic, but it was too late for the lizard.

I rehabilitated a boa constrictor who's owner had worn it like a piece of clothing, across his shoulder at the beach. Dehydrated, stressed beyond anything I had ever encountered before and completely blind from the sun.

I helped to dismantle the dashboard of a car, to retrieve a savannah monitor on a leash that had crawled up inside and wedged itself in place. Done the same with various snakes perhaps a dozen times.

I've talked to an awful lot of people over the years who carry their herp around with them and then are full of questions about why it won't eat or how it possibly could have developed a respiratory infection or why it is so lethargic.

I have been mid-conversation with a person who had a leopard gecko on each shoulder. Then they had a leopard gecko on one shoulder and a leopard gecko on the floor. Turning to try grabbing the fallen one, they had two leopard geckos on the floor... and then two leopard geckos underneath and behind things. And then no leopard geckos at all, they were simply gone beyond the ability of anyone to retrieve.

Similar to that last one, I've been in a grocery store where half the employees and one dumb sod who thought it was cool to wear a carpet python like a scarf are tearing apart shelves trying to recapture it.

I've heard stories about the predatory bird which came "out of nowhere" to snatch a pet reptile that was "put out on the lawn to explore" despite the owner being "right there only a few feet away the entire time."

I also once watched a german shepherd knock a person over in order to absolutely maul the cockatoo that was sitting on their shoulder. It's not a reptile incident but it very well could have been.

The animal gains nothing from being carried around. We spend all this time, effort and money building them an enclosure that has all the right conditions, tweaking the temperature and playing with humidity, making sure everything is safe and secure and controlled and ideal; so it baffles me that we'd then immediately haul them out of it to take a trip to the post office, grocery store, park or beach. It's nothing but risk and stress and danger for the animal.

One of the excuses I hear for it from time to time is how great it is for community relations, how it's an opportunity to educate the public and expose them to the joy and wonder of reptiles... which is a load of utter crap. There are ways and times and places for exactly that, but randomly in public places is not it. A herp society meeting or reptile show is a good place for that. Those traveling semi-educational shows that do birthday parties and school presentations and various events like a sort of petting zoo are a good place for that. Labeled, anticipated, controlled scenarios with people who understand that they are going to be given a chance to see and/or interact with reptiles. No surprises. When reptile encounters go right, they can really spark an interest and an understanding in the people who participated. When reptile encounters go wrong, it's the evening news and a politician who doesn't really care one way or the other "taking a stand!" to appeal to the voters.
 

fl_orchidslave

New Member
Messages
4,074
Location
St. Augustine, FL
I couldn't agree more, Seamus, that there's a time and place, to take reptiles out in a controlled public. There are many good ways to expose and educate the public without walking down Main Street wearing a cherished herp, just for a person's selfish desire to show off their cool pet.

No one is allowed to go into my lizard room, nor is anyone allowed to go into my boyfriend's snake room and randomly open cages, not even with us standing right there. We will gladly open a cage and take out the animal for someone to hold. I rarely let anyone hold my animals, even at shows (they're already stressed enough). A lot of children want to see with their hands, and I flat out won't allow it. Anything can happen when our herps are removed from their comfy homes and taken out to meet strangers.

Not long ago there was a story on national news involving a boa that had been recovered on some kind of train up north, after being loose a month. The owner was outraged over being charged around $1000 clean/sterilization fee. This is just what the media needs to make a sensationalized story against reptile keepers is this type carelessness on the part of the owner, taking her snake out in public and it gets loose.

Our herp society has an agreement with the museum we hold monthly meeting at, to volunteer for them 10 hours a month in exchange for the room rental fee. Separate from our regular meetings, a small group of our members take a few animals like ball pythons, bearded dragons, bluetongue skinks, etc, to show and tell museum patrons about captive reptile pets. They also ask us to participate in a few community events as well. I personally do not take my animals for these events, but am thankful that some of our folks do this. It's a 40 mile run up to Jacksonville so we can get away with that excuse, but I just don't want people touching my animals!
 

PaladinGirl

New Member
Messages
427
Location
Michigan
In the fall of 2001, an acquaintance of mine, a man I knew as a result of mutual participation in another area of interest, conversationally mentioned that he kept reptiles as pets. He had leopard geckos and a bearded dragon, corn snakes and a couple ball pythons. He said he was thinking about crested geckos and a carpet python. He had been casually keeping them as pets for a couple years and expressed an interest in my animals when I mentioned what I was keeping (at the time, it was pretty expansive actually).

He was invited to my house, brought into one of the rooms I was housing reptiles in and I gave him permission to look around. He pointed to a bin containing a young white lipped python, asked what was in it, got a response and pulled the bin part way out to take a look. The python, being what it is, popped out through the opening. Mouth closed, little snake (a little shy of three feet long and they're very thin at that age) just doing what they sometimes do when housed in a rack.

This guy though... the one who was telling me about his reptile pets and how he'd been keeping them for a couple years... he got startled. Not even scared really, he wasn't frightened of snakes, just startled by something unexpected.

He twitched and he slammed the bin back. Problem being, my snake was still perched over the edge, with about a foot of its body and head outside of the bin. This broke several ribs and caused some spinal damage. Pinched, it began thrashing around and large swathes of skin and tissue were torn away as it struggled.

Holy crap Seamus, how devestating. Poor snake. That must've been very upsetting for you. And I can't even imagine what the guy felt like. Ugh.
 

M_surinamensis

Shillelagh Law
Messages
1,165
It was the loss of one of my favorite animals. It was also a fairly painful and pointed lesson about what it really means to be in control of a situation and just how unpredictable other people can be. And that was a guy who was interested in herps, at least casually. The general public contains some individuals who will have a much stronger response. Hopefully by telling it, others can consider the possibilities and arrive at a responsible, safe decision for their own animals.

We don't just represent ourselves when we interact with the public either, we become representatives of all reptile owners, everywhere. The visible actions of one person can have far reaching consequences for everyone else, there are ripples of repercussion to everything we do. If we do it well, then we (as a group) look responsible and knowledgeable, the public can end up better educated and positively inclined towards the animals and the people who keep them. If we do it poorly then the exact opposite result occurs. Surprise! Reptile! is not a good way to go about it, it's disrespectful of people who have fears (however rational or irrational), it introduces elements of chance, it risks negative interactions with the public and injury to our animals. Much better to restrict and control the scenario to a greater degree, risk may never be totally eliminated but it can be substantially reduced.
 

Pinky81

New Member
Messages
1,100
Location
Wisconsin
COMPLETELY agree with Laney and Semus!! I know my animals I will go into their tanks and put my hands in if they want to climb onto my hands and come out then I will hold them, usually me sitting as who knows what might startle them and cause them to fall. But I have never had mine out for hours at a time. Maybe 15-20mins, and I almost never have more then one out at a time. I also won't take one out if it is obvious it doesn't want to come out..i.e. climbing up on my hand or struggling when trying to pick it up.

And I would never take mine out and about...just too many variables!!!
 

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