Introduction to the confusion
Where to start?
Well let’s start with things that most people know about:
Ron Tremper and Robbie Hamper saying in their books that it was between the years 1995 and 1996 when the morph with the name “Tangerine†appeared the first time.
Those “Tangerines†were produced like 20 years before the High Yellows – by selective breeding. So one chose the most orange geckos and bred them.
Over the years the breeders managed it that the Tangerines had less black spots with every generation (by selective breeding as well).
So one coined the term “Hypo†(for hypomelanistic). Those Tangerines with less than 12 spots on body between head and tail were called “Hypo Tangerine†from now on.
Animals without any spots on body between head and tail were called the “Super Hypo Tangerinesâ€. But it was “allowed†for “Super Hypo Tangerines†to have black spots on head and tail.
The mutation that did not find much attention
I bought a “Super Hypo†female from Ray Hine.
In 2003 I bred her the first time. I bred her to a Wild caught normal male.
From two clutched she laid,only one clutch hatched.
Big surprise: The babies looked differently from normal babies. The bands weren’t black. They were something between grey and brown.
And those bands disappeared more quickly than normal (after one or two shed they developed the first spots!). And their coloration was more intensive yellow than normal and turned out to be an yellow-orange.
As adults they looked more like mum than dad.
But there was a difference between mum and babies: The Super Hypo mum does not have real black spots on head. The spots she has can hardly be seen. But the babies (who weren’t babies anymore) had real black spots on head.
So I called them Hypos, although I could have called them “Super Hypos†after the old definition, because they did not have any black spots on the body between head and tail.
So what had happened?
My first thought was, that the male was “het†for Hypo. (I did not know much about genetics at this time…I knew the morphs patternless, Blizard and Albino..and all those were rececive…so my first thought was that the information for the Hypo gene is recessive)
“But how could that be?†I thought. The male is a wild caught….how could he be “het†for Hypo?
I asked Ray Hine about this. But he couldn’t help me because his first thought was as well that it had to be recessive.
I decided to wait for the 2004 season to see what the babies would turn out. If the gene would have been recessive there would only be a 50:50 chance to get Hypo babies.
BUT: All nine babies that hatched in 2004 from the “Super Hypo†x “Wild caughtâ€-pairing turned out Hypo.
In 2004 then a new Leopardgecko mutation appeared: The Mack Snows.
It was something totally new…because it was a “Co-dominantâ€-mutation (ok…the Giants appeared first…but no body knew that they were co-dominant at this time I think).
A new thought came to my mind: “The Hypo gene is co-dominantâ€
So on May the 13th in 2005 I started a thread in the fauna-forums.
3550 people read that threat and there were 118 responses (thx again to everyone who took part in this discussion).
We discussed a lot…but we could not decide then if it is dominant, co-dominant, or incomplete dominant.
Simple dominant, Co-dominant or Incomplete dominant?
I never thought it was dominant. Many people thought so because the babies looked like “Super Hyposâ€. But for me there was this clear difference:
The head pattern.
Here some short definitions of the three types of dominance (source: wikipedia.org):
Simple dominance
Consider the simple example in peas of flower color, first studied by Gregor Mendel. The dominant allele is purple and the recessive allele is white. In a given individual, the two corresponding alleles of the chromosome pair fall into one of three patterns:
• both alleles purple
• both alleles white
• one allele purple and one allele white
If the two alleles are the same (homozygous), the trait they represent will be expressed. But if the individual carries one of each allele (heterozygous), only the dominant one will be.
Incomplete dominance
In incomplete dominance (sometimes called partial dominance), a heterozygous genotype creates an intermediate phenotype.
Co-dominance
In co-dominance, neither phenotype is dominant. Instead, the individual expresses both phenotypes.
The difference between Incomplete dominance and Co-dominance is that in Incomplete dominance there is a blending of the mothers’ and the fathers’ phenotype creating a new phenotype in offspring. In Co-dominance both phenotypic characteristics are expressed as well, but they are not blended. So one can Say: “Ah ok..this comes from mum that from dadâ€.
The interesting thing about the Co-dominance definition is that there can be a movement in favour of one of the phenotypes. That means that one trait is more dominant than the other one, but both are still expressed in the new phenotype.
So my decision was done: The Hypo gene has to be Co-dominant!
Of course: The Hypo babies do look more like the Super Hypo mother…but there was this difference: The head pattern…so this is the way the father’s phenotype is expressen in those animals AND another thing I noticed: the yellow-orange coloration of the Hypo babies is not that intensive like the mothers coloration.
Hypos = A wild mutation!
The interesting thing is that the original Hypos were wild caught animals. In 2005 I asked Ray when he got the original wild caught animals. He couldn’t tell me exactly (well it was the Terraristika…so he hadn’t much time) but he told me that he got them about 6 or 7 years ago. This would explain why this new mutation did not got so much attention or better: why nobody realy realized that it was a new mutation. Like Ron Tremper and Robbie Hamper are saying: The first selective bred Hypo tangerines were available in 1995 or 1996. I’ve never seen a pic of them but I believe that those animals already had fewer spots than normal animals. And if Ray got these wild caught Hypos in 1998 or 1999, he probably sold the first ones between 1999 and 2000. This is 4 to 5 years later than the first selective bred “Hyposâ€. So my guess is the success of the already done selective breeding with those “Hypo Tangerines†was big enough that they only had a few spots or no spots left what means they looked more or less the same like the genetic “Hypos†from Ray Hine. In addition to that Ray started to sell his Hypos in Europe first. So the first Hine-Hypos might be arrived in America in 2002 or so. Just my thought…correct me if I’m wrong on that .
The testbreedings
So there was still a lot of work to do. I had to find the Super-form to prove that the Hypo gene is Co-dominant.
But at first a thing that many people already know about: In 2005 I also bred the first Hypo females that hatched in 2003 to a normal male. Frommost of the clutches I got from this pairing in every clutch one baby was normal and one baby a Hypo.The Hypo babies from the “Hypo†x “Normalâ€-pairing turned out the same like the babies from “Super Hypoâ€xâ€Normal (wc)â€-pairing.
And this Season (2006) I ried to produce Super Hypos and wanted to prove that they are phenotypic different from Hypos, what means there is a Super form.
So I started a new breeding group with: one Hypo male, 2 Hypo females and the original Super Hypo female I bought in 2002 from Ray Hine.
I think I got what I wanted
First interesting thing is: In the Fauna-thread many people argued that it is not possible to hatch out normals from a “Hypoâ€xâ€Hypoâ€-pairing (Kelli for example
) But of course this have to be possible because you can hatch Normals as well from breeding “Mack Snowâ€xâ€Mack Snow†(like many people of you know…). And well: I proved it. Two times I hatched out a normal baby from “Hypoâ€xâ€Hypoâ€-pairing so far.
And the Super-form?
Well…I had this “Hypoâ€xâ€Super Hypoâ€-pairing going on as well. So theoretically there is the chance of 50:50 to hatch a Super Hypo. But it was not that easy:
First clutch: both eggs went bad, second clutch: one egg went bad the other one hatched…I thought and hoped for a long time that this one might be the Super-form but at last it developed the black head spots as well, third clutch: both hatched (yeah) one of the babies waspretty nice and had pretty light bands…but I’ve hatched many Hypos as well that looked similar (but maybe not THAT light)
I hoped and hoped and hoped (maybe prayed a little bit)…in the meantime another clutch of this pairing hatched…of course both Hypos (damn). I’m not totally sure at this time but I THINK that I found the Super form. The gecko has some spots on the head. But they look like the spots of the Super Hypo female…they are not black!
He as well developed some spots on body. But they never turned black. The Hypos I hatched out developed spots on body first as well…the spots turned black and stay for some month and than they start to disappear again. But this little male (I HOPE it’s a male) has only a few spots and they never turned black before they started to disappear (they never really appeared they already where in the disappearing-phase when they appeared). His orange-yellow coloration is more intensive as well. So I proudly introduce the Super Hypo (I hope he does not disappoint me):
So if he turns out Super Hypo an male, there will be lot of work to do for him next season to prove him (holdback normal females from last season are already waiting for him).
Always anger with the baldys
Well…I wrote a lot. So I will try to shorten this. It seems like some of the baldys out there are genetic baldys. From what I’ve heard it seams like it’s a dominant trait. Well: This might destroy everything I found out. You just need to pair a Super Hypo Tangerine baldy to a normal and will get babies that look like Super Hypo Tangerine baldys. But actually those have only one copy of the Hypo gene so normally they would develop head spots. But one copy of the baldy gene is enough to delete the head spots. But I do not know enough about baldys to say this is proven. We’ll see the next years.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Special thanks go to Steve Sykes. He always answered my silly and often annoying questions. Thank you Steve. Thank you so much that you had the time to reply to my emails. You was a great help. Thx to everybody else who took part in this long discussion on fauna and replys to my update-threads I made.
So this project is not done yet (maybe the Super Hypo turns out Hypo to mortify me). But this was just a bigger update than normally because I have vacations and I’m not willing to clean up my room
Greetings from Germany, Johannes Knierer
Where to start?
Well let’s start with things that most people know about:
Ron Tremper and Robbie Hamper saying in their books that it was between the years 1995 and 1996 when the morph with the name “Tangerine†appeared the first time.
Those “Tangerines†were produced like 20 years before the High Yellows – by selective breeding. So one chose the most orange geckos and bred them.
Over the years the breeders managed it that the Tangerines had less black spots with every generation (by selective breeding as well).
So one coined the term “Hypo†(for hypomelanistic). Those Tangerines with less than 12 spots on body between head and tail were called “Hypo Tangerine†from now on.
Animals without any spots on body between head and tail were called the “Super Hypo Tangerinesâ€. But it was “allowed†for “Super Hypo Tangerines†to have black spots on head and tail.
The mutation that did not find much attention
I bought a “Super Hypo†female from Ray Hine.
In 2003 I bred her the first time. I bred her to a Wild caught normal male.
From two clutched she laid,only one clutch hatched.
Big surprise: The babies looked differently from normal babies. The bands weren’t black. They were something between grey and brown.
And those bands disappeared more quickly than normal (after one or two shed they developed the first spots!). And their coloration was more intensive yellow than normal and turned out to be an yellow-orange.
As adults they looked more like mum than dad.
But there was a difference between mum and babies: The Super Hypo mum does not have real black spots on head. The spots she has can hardly be seen. But the babies (who weren’t babies anymore) had real black spots on head.
So I called them Hypos, although I could have called them “Super Hypos†after the old definition, because they did not have any black spots on the body between head and tail.
So what had happened?
My first thought was, that the male was “het†for Hypo. (I did not know much about genetics at this time…I knew the morphs patternless, Blizard and Albino..and all those were rececive…so my first thought was that the information for the Hypo gene is recessive)
“But how could that be?†I thought. The male is a wild caught….how could he be “het†for Hypo?
I asked Ray Hine about this. But he couldn’t help me because his first thought was as well that it had to be recessive.
I decided to wait for the 2004 season to see what the babies would turn out. If the gene would have been recessive there would only be a 50:50 chance to get Hypo babies.
BUT: All nine babies that hatched in 2004 from the “Super Hypo†x “Wild caughtâ€-pairing turned out Hypo.
In 2004 then a new Leopardgecko mutation appeared: The Mack Snows.
It was something totally new…because it was a “Co-dominantâ€-mutation (ok…the Giants appeared first…but no body knew that they were co-dominant at this time I think).
A new thought came to my mind: “The Hypo gene is co-dominantâ€
So on May the 13th in 2005 I started a thread in the fauna-forums.
3550 people read that threat and there were 118 responses (thx again to everyone who took part in this discussion).
We discussed a lot…but we could not decide then if it is dominant, co-dominant, or incomplete dominant.
Simple dominant, Co-dominant or Incomplete dominant?
I never thought it was dominant. Many people thought so because the babies looked like “Super Hyposâ€. But for me there was this clear difference:
The head pattern.
Here some short definitions of the three types of dominance (source: wikipedia.org):
Simple dominance
Consider the simple example in peas of flower color, first studied by Gregor Mendel. The dominant allele is purple and the recessive allele is white. In a given individual, the two corresponding alleles of the chromosome pair fall into one of three patterns:
• both alleles purple
• both alleles white
• one allele purple and one allele white
If the two alleles are the same (homozygous), the trait they represent will be expressed. But if the individual carries one of each allele (heterozygous), only the dominant one will be.
Incomplete dominance
In incomplete dominance (sometimes called partial dominance), a heterozygous genotype creates an intermediate phenotype.
Co-dominance
In co-dominance, neither phenotype is dominant. Instead, the individual expresses both phenotypes.
The difference between Incomplete dominance and Co-dominance is that in Incomplete dominance there is a blending of the mothers’ and the fathers’ phenotype creating a new phenotype in offspring. In Co-dominance both phenotypic characteristics are expressed as well, but they are not blended. So one can Say: “Ah ok..this comes from mum that from dadâ€.
The interesting thing about the Co-dominance definition is that there can be a movement in favour of one of the phenotypes. That means that one trait is more dominant than the other one, but both are still expressed in the new phenotype.
So my decision was done: The Hypo gene has to be Co-dominant!
Of course: The Hypo babies do look more like the Super Hypo mother…but there was this difference: The head pattern…so this is the way the father’s phenotype is expressen in those animals AND another thing I noticed: the yellow-orange coloration of the Hypo babies is not that intensive like the mothers coloration.
Hypos = A wild mutation!
The interesting thing is that the original Hypos were wild caught animals. In 2005 I asked Ray when he got the original wild caught animals. He couldn’t tell me exactly (well it was the Terraristika…so he hadn’t much time) but he told me that he got them about 6 or 7 years ago. This would explain why this new mutation did not got so much attention or better: why nobody realy realized that it was a new mutation. Like Ron Tremper and Robbie Hamper are saying: The first selective bred Hypo tangerines were available in 1995 or 1996. I’ve never seen a pic of them but I believe that those animals already had fewer spots than normal animals. And if Ray got these wild caught Hypos in 1998 or 1999, he probably sold the first ones between 1999 and 2000. This is 4 to 5 years later than the first selective bred “Hyposâ€. So my guess is the success of the already done selective breeding with those “Hypo Tangerines†was big enough that they only had a few spots or no spots left what means they looked more or less the same like the genetic “Hypos†from Ray Hine. In addition to that Ray started to sell his Hypos in Europe first. So the first Hine-Hypos might be arrived in America in 2002 or so. Just my thought…correct me if I’m wrong on that .
The testbreedings
So there was still a lot of work to do. I had to find the Super-form to prove that the Hypo gene is Co-dominant.
But at first a thing that many people already know about: In 2005 I also bred the first Hypo females that hatched in 2003 to a normal male. Frommost of the clutches I got from this pairing in every clutch one baby was normal and one baby a Hypo.The Hypo babies from the “Hypo†x “Normalâ€-pairing turned out the same like the babies from “Super Hypoâ€xâ€Normal (wc)â€-pairing.
And this Season (2006) I ried to produce Super Hypos and wanted to prove that they are phenotypic different from Hypos, what means there is a Super form.
So I started a new breeding group with: one Hypo male, 2 Hypo females and the original Super Hypo female I bought in 2002 from Ray Hine.
I think I got what I wanted
First interesting thing is: In the Fauna-thread many people argued that it is not possible to hatch out normals from a “Hypoâ€xâ€Hypoâ€-pairing (Kelli for example
) But of course this have to be possible because you can hatch Normals as well from breeding “Mack Snowâ€xâ€Mack Snow†(like many people of you know…). And well: I proved it. Two times I hatched out a normal baby from “Hypoâ€xâ€Hypoâ€-pairing so far. And the Super-form?
Well…I had this “Hypoâ€xâ€Super Hypoâ€-pairing going on as well. So theoretically there is the chance of 50:50 to hatch a Super Hypo. But it was not that easy:
First clutch: both eggs went bad, second clutch: one egg went bad the other one hatched…I thought and hoped for a long time that this one might be the Super-form but at last it developed the black head spots as well, third clutch: both hatched (yeah) one of the babies waspretty nice and had pretty light bands…but I’ve hatched many Hypos as well that looked similar (but maybe not THAT light
)I hoped and hoped and hoped (maybe prayed a little bit)…in the meantime another clutch of this pairing hatched…of course both Hypos (damn). I’m not totally sure at this time but I THINK that I found the Super form. The gecko has some spots on the head. But they look like the spots of the Super Hypo female…they are not black!
He as well developed some spots on body. But they never turned black. The Hypos I hatched out developed spots on body first as well…the spots turned black and stay for some month and than they start to disappear again. But this little male (I HOPE it’s a male) has only a few spots and they never turned black before they started to disappear (they never really appeared they already where in the disappearing-phase when they appeared
). His orange-yellow coloration is more intensive as well. So I proudly introduce the Super Hypo (I hope he does not disappoint me):
So if he turns out Super Hypo an male, there will be lot of work to do for him next season to prove him (holdback normal females from last season are already waiting for him).
Always anger with the baldys
Well…I wrote a lot. So I will try to shorten this. It seems like some of the baldys out there are genetic baldys. From what I’ve heard it seams like it’s a dominant trait. Well: This might destroy everything I found out. You just need to pair a Super Hypo Tangerine baldy to a normal and will get babies that look like Super Hypo Tangerine baldys. But actually those have only one copy of the Hypo gene so normally they would develop head spots. But one copy of the baldy gene is enough to delete the head spots. But I do not know enough about baldys to say this is proven. We’ll see the next years.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Special thanks go to Steve Sykes. He always answered my silly and often annoying questions. Thank you Steve. Thank you so much that you had the time to reply to my emails. You was a great help. Thx to everybody else who took part in this long discussion on fauna and replys to my update-threads I made.
So this project is not done yet (maybe the Super Hypo turns out Hypo to mortify me). But this was just a bigger update than normally because I have vacations and I’m not willing to clean up my room
Greetings from Germany, Johannes Knierer
