Hypo gene = Co-dominant: I think I got what I wanted (loooong thread)

[gko reptiles]

If there was a seperate gene that got rid of head spots, you should be able to create a spotted gecko with a bald head, which I haven't seen yet. That would be pretty cool though.

Allright everyone... Phillip usually deals with the hatchlings, but when I was going through them earlier tonight I noticed something.... Here's your Baldy with body Spots... Also, I retract my previous statement...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Here's your Baldy with body Spots...

WOW!!! Very cool! We really do still have soooo much to learn about about how these genes behave, don't we?

 

[rhac]

Here's your Baldy with body Spots...

WOW!!! Very cool! We really do still have soooo much to learn about about how these genes behave, don't we?

Yeah that's coll. Thanx for your posts.
I think your theory is interesting. But if I got that right it would not work with the selective bred Hypos.
Your gecko does not look like a genetic Hypo. Same with the ElectricLine. If the Hypo gene would be necessary for the baldy gene to be expressed in the phenotype those selective bred Hypos could not be baldies.

Yes the Ghost is a ray hine codom hypo.They just lack any of the tang.very pale yellow.

Hi Jodi. How many years did you work with the ghosts? Did you ever hatch out something like the baby from my first post what I believe is a genetic Super Hypo?


Thx everyone, Johannes

 

[Blazin]

I believe that gecko will be a "superhypo tang" before all is said and done, but could we get some background info on that hatchling Christine?

 

[Ian S.]

As that baldy with the body spots ages, I'm willing to bet that it will loose most of those dark spots or the slight possibility it may even gain headspotting. I've had baldies go both ways. Especially adult breeders. I've had perfect baldies develope very dark spots on the head and body during breedings. Not sure how relevant that is to the case at hand. I personally would need to see a majorly spotted adult leo with a baldy head in order to believe that that there may in fact be a seperate baldy gene.

 

[gko reptiles]

I believe that gecko will be a "superhypo tang" before all is said and done, but could we get some background info on that hatchling Christine?

The parents are Hades (Hypo Tang CT male; not baldy) and one of our Gemini Twins (TCT female; also not baldy) The spots on his/her back are pretty dark... I don't think that they'll ever totally fade; that would be GREAT though!!!

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I first wanted to say, this is a wonderful read. It's always nice to see such in depth information like this. :main_thumbsup: Would it be possible for you to post a complete genetics tree including pictures for us to view?

Question: Can you tell the difference between the Co-Dominant Hypo vs the Selectively Bred Hypo by just looking at them? From what you wrote, I think maybe you could tell when they hatched by the coloring of their bands?

 

[rhac]

I first wanted to say, this is a wonderful read. It's always nice to see such in depth information like this. Would it be possible for you to post a complete genetics tree including pictures for us to view?

Question: Can you tell the difference between the Co-Dominant Hypo vs the Selectively Bred Hypo by just looking at them? From what you wrote, I think maybe you could tell when they hatched by the coloring of their bands?

Yes. No problem. I will post a genetics tree after I came back from my London holidays.

Well and the difference between co-dominant Hypo and selectively bred Hypo: I think I can tell them appart after they hatched. The problem is I do not breed selective bred hypos, what means I've just seen pictures of them untill now. But the selectively bred Hypos I saw pictures of had black bands. So they looked pretty much like normals, just the color was more intensive yellow or even a bit orange. The color of the co-dominant Hypo bands depends on the incubation temperature. The warmer the incubator, the lighter the bands. But they are something between grey and brown. You have to take a close look at some of the female babies. If the incubation temperature was very low, the bands might look black. So for someone who don't know much about them they might look like normals first. But the second look will help. The co-dominant Hypo babies do always have a yellow coloration. If you are not sure the day they hatched, just wait for the first shed. The genetic Hypos do change faster than normals. What means the yellow coloration comes in faster and the bands will fade faster.
Important thing to notice: Some adult genetic Hypos have a few spots on body as well but only where the bands were as babies. This fact helps by defining if an adult Hypo is selectively bred Hypo line or genetic line. Selectively brted Hypos can have spots, between the places where the bands was as babies, as well.
Another thing is the head pattern. Selectively bred Hypos can develop more bold spots on head. But some genetic Hypos might develop bold spots as well. So this is nothing sure.
But Marcia mentioned something (I think it was in that old thread on fauna as well? I don't know). She wrote about spots on jaw that the genetic Hypos tend to have.

Greetings from Germany...ähm no..sorry...greetings from London, Johannes

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Can you tell the difference between the Co-Dominant Hypo vs the Selectively Bred Hypo by just looking at them? From what you wrote, I think maybe you could tell when they hatched by the coloring of their bands?

I can usually tell if a baby is going to be a SHTB (not a CT), and the difference between a genetic hypo and a selectively bred hypo under normal circumstances. The genetic hatchlings don't always have a line of dark pigment across their upper rear legs. The classic signature for the pure Ray Hine x tangerine is the typical spotting that develops along the lover jaw, and the head and body shape are slightly longer/leaner. Since we have so many different tangerine line crosses now, the differences are much more subtle, but I agree that these little ones go 'hypo' must more quickly, easily seen in each shed.

The line-bred tangerines & CT's tend to have the most vibrant dark reddish-orange coloration, but tend to retain their body, and especially head spotting. These hatchlings are usually quite colorful right out of the egg, with very dark bands. A few of my 'old school' tangerine genes almost behave as co-dom, with clutches producing one 'hypo' and one very orange but spotted offspring.

 

[rhac]

Just wanted to post this pic of a small female I hatched out from Super Hypo x Hypo breeding. She is still young but her sibling already developed a lot of spots on head and her colors are realy nice. So I bet this one is a Super Hypo as well:

Sorry, I did not have enough time to create a genetics tree. I hope I have some time the next days.


Greetings from Germany, Johannes Knierer

 

[chad e]

As that baldy with the body spots ages, I'm willing to bet that it will loose most of those dark spots or the slight possibility it may even gain headspotting.

i agree. that little guy is young. he may still gain or lose spotting.

what a great thread!

how long did ray hines believe his hypo gene to be recessive? when was it discovered to be otherwise?

also, are we clear on weather the hypo gene is Codominant or incomplete dominant yet?

is it:

Normal gene/Normal gene= fully spotted
Hypo gene/Normal gene = less overall spots
Hypo gene/Hypo gene = no spots

OR

Normal gene/Normal gene= fully spotted
Hypo gene/Normal gene = less spots in certain sections of the body
Hypo gene/Hypo gene = no spots

??

 

[Sandra]

This is such an interesting thread! And to think that I had a discussion with a guy some days ago about if hypos were genetic or line-bred... It seems that we both were right and wrong at the same time.

Don't let this thread die, keep posting with updates and opinions! :main_yes:

 

[van_veen456]

very interesting thread!
i bred a (ray hine) Hybino to a normal female this year.
this is the result. The left one looks like she might go hypo, the right one not.
What might be interesting, is that the left one also inherreted the 'tang' from dad...but that can also be coincidence...

oh....almost forgot...the ghost thing...
I dont know what to think about that...I bred the same (tang) hybino male to a 'normal' hypo het albino. this is what i got...also very very pale...

 

[rhac]

Hi,

do you have baby pictures of the first two? But from this picture I would say both are not Hypos.
The baby on the second pic is definately a Hypo. I would call it a ghost. But you never know with the hatchlings. Wait some months. Some of my "ghost"-babies developed the orange/yellow coloration later. But the color will not be as intensive like on the animals that have more color as hatchlings.
Do you have pictures of the parents?

Regards, Johannes

 

[van_veen456]

I have one (bad) baby pic...together with some normal hatchlings.
hmmm...looked it up..not quiet the baby pic i had in mind.
they where born within a few days of each other.

i'll send you a link to the parents in a PM, not to spoil this topic.

 

[KellyTCS]

Very informative thread! Thanks! Everybody keeps talking about ghosts, is this one? This is one of my females that laid eggs a couple weeks ago.

 

[KiKi]

those babies are so cute i hope when mine has eggs they will be cute too

 

[Franks_Geckos]

So, here's an interesting question and I have a specific interest in this. If the Ray Hines Hypo gene is co-dominant as some have stated, and I bred a female Hypo to a male Mack Snow (also co-dom) then, I have a 25% chance of hatching a Mack Snow Ghost. Do they like like normal Mack Snows when they hatch or are the bands lighter? Anyone?

 

[Aquila]

Very interesting and useful topic. I'm interested who in EU now breed co-dominant hypos.

Best regards
Ivo