I learned a lesson

[sunshinegeckos]

At the Tampa show I picked up a Tug Snow Female. I looked at her through the plastic bin and she looked nice and healthy but I didnt open up the bin for whatever reason I have no clue. I got her home opened her up and her front leg is severely deformed ( I hadnt seen it because she was laying on it when I picked her up. I quickly went back and took her back and the guy said "oh yeah I forgot to tell you about that" :main_angry: Yeah right and then he tried to tell me it wasnt genetic and it might not have been but I was not going to take the chance and I got my money back. I learned my lesson, from now on I will inspect all geckos I am purchasing.

 

[Ehatcher]

why would someone sell a deformed gecko without specifying it?! wow.

 

[rchase54]

Poor thing, just cuz it isn't breeding-stock doesnt mean they shouldn't have a good home :/

 

[DierdreDreamwalker626]

I hate that they didn't tell you about that beforehand. They may have just wanted to get them off their hands. :/ That's ridiculous. .... I hope someone gives that poor baby a good, loving home.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Poor thing, just cuz it isn't breeding-stock doesnt mean they shouldn't have a good home :/

The point is, this defect should have been disclosed by the seller. A lot of folks are happy to give a less than perfect animal a good home, but it isn't a good business practice to sell geckos with known issues and not inform the buyer. It damages a vendor's reputation.

 

[fuzzylogix]

if you have the seller's information, you should probably post it in the transactions section. the fact they were even selling a gecko like this is beyond me.

 

[Wowoklol]

if you have the seller's information, you should probably post it in the transactions section. the fact they were even selling a gecko like this is beyond me.

People around here sell stuff with tail kinks, missing feet etc. Whats the difference?

 

[Landen]

People around here sell stuff with tail kinks, missing feet etc. Whats the difference?

a tail kink or eyelid wrinkle is a whole lot different than a deformed leg. the point here is the seller knowingly sold it without even mentioning it before she purchased it. if there is any anomaly that effects any animals basic functions or ability to thrive it should be culled as it would have been under nature's survival of the fittest in the wild.

 

[fuzzylogix]

People around here sell stuff with tail kinks, missing feet etc. Whats the difference?

the difference is that those issues are disclosed to the buyer if the seller has any ethics. i probably have more "special needs" geckos as pets only than some members have in their entire collections. but i'm not going to put a gecko on a table that has a deformity and try to pass it off as an otherwise healthy animal. it seems pretty obvious that this seller was just trying to make a quick buck on an animal that probably should have been culled to begin with. i have hatched geckos with deformities such as small eyes, severe underbites, kinked tails, etc.. but they have either been culled or remain pets only. i personally would never even sell one of those animals even as a pet only because i'm not positive the issues aren't genetic. i probably would have worked this guy over until he gave me my money back and gave me the gecko. but that's just me.

 

[Landen]

Well said shawn... we all produce gecko's that have deformities from time to time, some are culled right away, others are given a chance to overcome and thrive. There is no rule book to follow, just a functioning brain and a conscience will do. If it is sold, the seller should make every effort to divulge any defect right off the bat, also there is a responsibility to understand if the buyer is educated on the special needs the gecko would require. IMO these should not be sold at shows, they should be sold in a private format to people outside the breeding community, there are plenty of people that understand that less than perfect animals deserve to live a long life as well. At the end of the day, we all have to be more responsible for the gene pool we play with.

 

[fuzzylogix]

i've refused to sell perfectly healthy geckos to people before because they have no clue as to what they even are. guy got mad at me at the OKC show because he came up to my table and said "what kinda lizards are these" and "sell me one that my 2 year old can play with". sorry, not happening. i have geckos that i know for a fact have deformities from temp fluctuations, but again, they will never leave my home. some may not take it to that extreme, but that's a personal choice i have made. the point of this thread seems to have been just informational, but i would really like to know who this seller was. this kind of thing infuriates the crap out of me.

 

[Landen]

I wonder if any of the "I want to become a breeder" people ever think about the "others" they will likely produce. It's the downside of this, being raised in a farming community, I've witnessed breeders of numerous types of livestock practice culling habits to protect their genetics. There should be more posts, showing the "special needs" that are produced to educate people on the other side of breeding. I think most breeders are scared it would portray a negative image of their stock, but it happens to us all and ultimately even happens regularly in nature. From the little guys on up to the big guys too.

 

[fuzzylogix]

i actually think that's a good idea. i might show off some of my pet only leos tomorrow.

 

[Mickykayla]

Poor thing, just cuz it isn't breeding-stock doesnt mean they shouldn't have a good home :/

Very much agreed.
I feel sorry for all the geckos that get left behind or with a pet rescue centre because they aren't 'pretty colours' or have perfect features.
I want to take them all home

 

[rchase54]

Very much agreed.
I feel sorry for all the geckos that get left behind or with a pet rescue centre because they aren't 'pretty colours' or have perfect features.
I want to take them all home

Yeah, if it's survived this long with its deformity it obviously doesn't deserved to be culled or whatever. It shouldn't probably be bred, but I'd be more than happy to give it a good home. I realize that it was only returned because the seller was unhonest, but I just think it's sad that people think that a small deformity makes it somehow less deserving of a good home and your affection :/

 

[Wowoklol]

the difference is that those issues are disclosed to the buyer if the seller has any ethics. i probably have more "special needs" geckos as pets only than some members have in their entire collections. but i'm not going to put a gecko on a table that has a deformity and try to pass it off as an otherwise healthy animal. it seems pretty obvious that this seller was just trying to make a quick buck on an animal that probably should have been culled to begin with. i have hatched geckos with deformities such as small eyes, severe underbites, kinked tails, etc.. but they have either been culled or remain pets only. i personally would never even sell one of those animals even as a pet only because i'm not positive the issues aren't genetic. i probably would have worked this guy over until he gave me my money back and gave me the gecko. but that's just me.

Reread what I quoted you on. The last part had nothing to do with disclosure. You said why they are selling that animal to begin with was beyond you. Maybe the seller assumed the buyer would actually look at the animal they are buying? I think they are both somewhat at fault. 3 legged lizards have a place in the market!

 

[Wowoklol]

a tail kink or eyelid wrinkle is a whole lot different than a deformed leg. the point here is the seller knowingly sold it without even mentioning it before she purchased it. if there is any anomaly that effects any animals basic functions or ability to thrive it should be culled as it would have been under nature's survival of the fittest in the wild.

So I'm thinking you just didn't read his comment I quoted then. Cool. Had nothing to do with disclosure. /sigh

 

[sunshinegeckos]

Poor thing, just cuz it isn't breeding-stock doesnt mean they shouldn't have a good home :/

Yeah, if it's survived this long with its deformity it obviously doesn't deserved to be culled or whatever. It shouldn't probably be bred, but I'd be more than happy to give it a good home. I realize that it was only returned because the seller was unhonest, but I just think it's sad that people think that a small deformity makes it somehow less deserving of a good home and your affection :/

If I had room for another pet only (I have 1 already) I would have probably kept her but I am looking for breeding stock and obviously she couldnt/shouldn't have been bred. Yes she might have made a good pet but the severeity of the deformity I wouldn't have taken the chance of selling her to just anyone.

Maybe the seller assumed the buyer would actually look at the animal they are buying? I think they are both somewhat at fault. 3 legged lizards have a place in the market!

Yes I know part of the fault was with me. I was excited that I found a TUG snow (which I have been wanting) and after a general look I picked her up. I guess it was just the excitement that made me not think. Like I said in the title I learned my lesson. BUT the seller knew and should have disclosed the info especially since I had mentioned I wanted her for a breeding project. He did give me my money back after trying to "sell" me on the fact that he didn't think it was genetic. That was his bad.

I will locate the name of the breeder and make a report on the BOI

 

[fl_orchidslave]

At a show a couple months ago, a friend of mine asked me to look at those seller's geckos because she was thinking of trading some snakes for the group of I think 6 or 7, to see if I thought it was a good deal. I told her no. People do trades all the time and snake breeders end up with geckos on occasion, which means there is often no history on the gecko. Even then, any known issues should be disclosed to potential buyers. A refund was given to the buyer immediately, as Christine had returned the gecko the same day. So all that was handled correctly by both the seller and the buyer. The real problem was the disclosure of a known issue not stated to the buyer. I would never tell people who not to buy from for whatever reasons, but when asked, I will tell people who to buy from. When you work the shows, a reputation gets around, good or bad. Repeat customers are golden.

 

[rickmoss95]

i totally agree with all of you. i think it is just a shame that people would rather make a "quick buck" than be honest and have future repeat customers. i just dont get how these people dont understand that it will be so much better in the long run...although i dont know how many people i have seen "come and go" for this very reason. and Landen, you made a great point about new breeders and being prepared for this. i think new breeders should be prepared to keep and raise EVERY baby they EVER produce, just incase...there are just so many veriables in our hobby(especially the breeding aspect), and i think that very reason is why so many new breeders fail. too many think this is a get rich quick business, and they fail to realize that most(if not all) of the first money to be made, goes back into the collection. realistically, new breeders should not expect a profit for two, maybe three years(if not more). and im also with you Laney, i would rather have a "few" repeat customers, than a bunch of one time customers. people who know me, know they are getting the highest quality animals possible, and unmatched customer service...i wouldnt have it any other way. i dont care about being one of the "big names", but rather someone with the above qualities. some of the "big names" are really great and keep up with thier quality and customer service...but unfortunately i see alot of them more focused on "how many sales" they make. i dont care how long i do this or how many animals i sell, i will always focus on the health and quality of my animals. and i will treat every customer i have with utmost respect and honesty, as i would expect if(and when) i buy animals. its only right, and in my opinion...there is no other way. too bad everyone selling animals does not see it this way.