Info on Crypto from Ron Tremper

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I just received this email from Ron Tremper:

Hi Everyone........

Here's some important recent findings that have come my way via clients and contacts about the organism Cryptosporidium (= "Cyrpto")in leopard geckos.

The new drug of choice for Crypto in leopard geckos (will work on other herps as well) is HUMATIN (= paromomycin). It is a drug for humans but has been used in cage bird industry against Crypto with great success. The few herpers that have used it say it saves geckos.

Last spring a guy in Panama, which is a top parrot breeder, got in some geckos from the US, which really went downhill from Crypto. He contacted a top bird Vet and was prescribed the drug Humatin. He reported directly to me at the 2007 Daytona Expo in August that his geckos recovered - even ones with "pin tails". So I contacted his Vet and here's some of that input I received..........

*********

".......Humatin is the brand name for Paromomycin. If you buy it buy the generic as it is much less expensive. The dose that I recall is high - like 400 mg/kg orally once daily for 10 days. A second round of treatment may be necessary. It is important to disinfect with ammonia. That is from my memory. [the Panamian] used it with his geckos with great success. I have been using it to treat birds for years with very good success."

additional comments ...........

"Ron
There is a published [Humatin] dose of 300 to 800 mg/kg for geckos with cryptosporidium (referenced to Coke RL and Tristan TE - Proceedings of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians.) I chose to go with 400 mg/kg. It is noted that this provides clinical relief but cannot be relied upon to stop shedding [egg cysts]. The immune response of the animal is important and very temperature dependent. Also disinfection of the environment is critical to reduce the level of organisms in the environment. Cryptosporidia are very environmentally resistant. Anything to reduce the environmental loads of cysts would be helpful.........."

*********

In reading all the research literature on how to kill crypto (egg) cysts.....the concensus is to simply let caging and water bowls dry for 8 hours. Moisture keeps them alive, even when treated with acid and gases. Desication or Ammonia seem to be the best egg destroyer.

I hope this information aides in controlling the growing threat of Crypto in the leopard gecko industry worldwide. Much works needs to be done to test Humatin's long range effects. It is important for all of us to attack this disease head on.

(disclaimer = Use of the above information is not guaranteed to cure Crytpo and the user is solely responsible for their own actions. I am merely passing on what I have learned from others.)

Kind regards,
Ron Tremper........

OK. I would like to comment on this. First of all, Paromomycin is NOT a new treatment for Crypto in Leopard Geckos... is has been used with some degree of success for over 3 years. It is not known whether or not it actually 'cures' crypo, or puts it in semi-permanent remission. There is a theory that even if the gecko is asymptomatic, there is a possibility that it could be a 'carrier' for the disease, and perhaps does not prevent the disease from infecting other geckos. Until this is understood, ALL geckos that are positive for crypto must be maintained in quarantine for their entire lives.

I cannot stress the importance of quarantining each and every newly acquired gecko for a minimum of 90 days... regardless of where you got them!

 

[gothra]

Thankyou for posting this information, Marcia.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

The second message:

Hi Everyone.......

Now that there is some hope for the drug HUMATIN (= paromomycin - Vet prescribed) in combating Crypto in leopard gecko, I want to share my thoughts on how to further manage this disease organism.

MANAGING CRYPTOSPORIDIUM

1) Humatin (=paromomycin) 400mg/kg orally for 10 days. Treat ailing
geckos early in the disease process. The sure sign that Crypto is at
hand is that your gecko will regurgitate their skin shed bundle and/or food items undigested. Other symptoms include weight loss, diarrhea, loss of appetite and internal abdominal blackening.

It is my opinion that Crypto is carried by most, if not all, leopard geckos and that symptoms emerge due to stress. The most common
actions that cause stress are shipping, competition/fighting, improper
cage temperature and over-crowding.

2) Do not over-crowd geckos. Size sort growing young every 10 days
and do not house more than 6 geckos, under 6", in a 16" x 22" x 6" sweater/blanket type plastic storage box. No more than 5 adults in
the same growout space.

3) From hatching, do not keep growout males together past 6".

4) Do not transfer moisture or feces from one cage to another. Wash your hands thoroughly if you come into contact with the water dish or
droppings during regular maintenance. Soak cage boxes and water dishes in 10% ammonia solution for 2-4 hours, rinse, and then let items dry completely for 4-6 hours.

5) I believe that the further a given bloodline is from the "wild caught" line the more susceptible geckos are to Crypto. Make outcross breedings back to wild or different bloodlines every 5 generations to inject vigor into your group and boost their natural immune system.

6) Unless you know the source, quarantine new arrivals for a minimus of 2 months and away from your established geckos. If possible, have your Vet check stool samples from new arrivals or geckos that are losing weight.

These seem to be the best tools to manage Crypto. I believe that implementing such practices will allow anyone to keep this organism
under control.

Ron Tremper
December 17, 2006

See the part that I highlighted. I really do not like hearing that. Why does Ron insist on scaring everyone?

 

[Zbiz]

Um... what are the Symptoms of Crypto?

 

[sportbike_rob]

Um... what are the Symptoms of Crypto?

+1

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I myself believe this to be true, I think most gecko "carry" crypto and only become grossly infected when put under stress.

The second message:



See the part that I highlighted. I really do not like hearing that. Why does Ron insist on scaring everyone?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Several years ago, I had some serious problems with mycotoxic poisoning of 17 of my leopard gecko breeders over a period of 9 months, and thought I had crypto in my colonies. NOTHING ever showed up in any tests, including 5 necropsies of the intestines of my geckos. Dr. Frederic L. Frye himself performed the last post, and went over all the pathology of my previous necropsies. NO CRYPTO WAS FOUND IN ANY OF THEM. Not even traces of the parasite.

Ron and Philippe de Vosjoli collected hundreds of leopard geckos from breeders and hobbyists around the world, and had them all tested for crypto. They claim they found disease in 60% of those leopard geckos. If all leopard geckos have crypto, then why didn't it turn up in the other 40% of the geckos? I asked him if those breeders they got the geckos from were notified that they had crypto in their colonies, and he said, "Yes. All the sources of the infected geckos were notified".

Was any breeder on this forum notified?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Two articles on Crypto in reptiles have been published in the past 3 months by an Exotic vet journal we print at my work (can't recall the title). While I can not provide the entire articles due to copyright law (I don't believe I'm even allowed to keep a copy, but I do...Useful information in them not available to the public)...I can take select paragraphs and post them here. This is cutting edge information from researchers and vets, not second hand information from RT.

I won't be back into work until Weds, I'll have the information up over the weekend probably.

 

[MackSnow]

I'm very excited for this information!

 

[Sandra]

I don't think that most geckos are carrying crypto either. I may be wrong, but I haven't heard of any case in Spain in the last two years (the time I've been into geckos) and believe me that many geckos here would have enough reasons to feel under stress.

I participate a lot in one of the most important Spanish reptile forums, of course in the gecko section too, and I've seen many people asking about illnesses from their geckos, but I'm yet to see somebody who asks about shed regurgitation, that is a typical symptom.

My theory is that this illness was introduced and seriously spreaded throughout America but due to the big distance between our continents there haven't been many shipments, and consequently it hasn't spreaded to the Old World or at least there are very few cases. I'd like to know if any European breeder has been notified of any case of crypto.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

What bothers me is that according to Ron's newest book, he and Philippe claim that 60% of leopard geckos are infected with crypto. I do not feel that information is statistically sound. It should be stated that 60% of the geckos they tested were infected. Where did they get their samples? Exactly how was the statistical analysis derived? I sometimes have over 200 leopard geckos at a time, and I KNOW that 0% of them have crypto!

Um... what are the Symptoms of Crypto?

I'm yet to see somebody who asks about shed regurgitation, that is a typical symptom.

Regurgitating shed doesn't NOT mean that your gecko is infected with crypto. Neither does anorexia and diarrhea. Unfortunately, those symptoms could mean anything from having the shed skin get stuck in their throat, to a plethora of other problems such as gastritis, bacterial infections, to improper environmental conditions.

Why does Ron insist on scaring everyone?

I think I know the answer to this question, but will keep my opinions to myself for a change...

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Just wondering Marcia, but how do you know 0% of them do?

What bothers me is that according to Ron's newest book, he and Philippe claim that 60% of leopard geckos are infected with crypto. I do not feel that information is statistically sound. It should be stated that 60% of the geckos they tested were infected. Where did they get their samples? Exactly how was the statistical analysis derived? I sometimes have over 200 leopard geckos at a time, and I KNOW that 0% of them have crypto!

 

[Sandra]

Regurgitating shed doesn't NOT mean that your gecko is infected with crypto. Neither does anorexia and diarrhea. Unfortunately, those symptoms could mean anything from having the shed skin get stuck in their throat, to a plethora of other problems such as gastritis, bacterial infections, to improper environmental conditions.

Well, anorexia and diarrhea are very common symtoms but I haven't seen any case of shed regurgitation in two years (fortunately!), so it shouldn't be so common after all, even if it can be caused by several things. Anyway, I haven't seen anybody ever mention crypto in all Spanish forums I know (and maybe someone should...).

I may just post a poll and see how many people know about this disease and know of any cases. It's important to know if it's real that there aren't any cases or it's just people's ignorance that is hiding it.

I hope people realise of the importance of quarantining even captive bred reptiles, now that international imports are becoming more and more popular.

Ps. Just realised that "spread" is an irregular verb, sorry for those "spreaded" in my previous post :main_lipsrsealed:

 

[eyelids]

LOL @ RT!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Just wondering Marcia, but how do you know 0% of them do?

Justyn, for almost 5 years I have routine fecals (including acid-fast stains and mass-spectrometer analysis for crypto) performed by my vet who is a consultant for the Oakland Zoo's Reptile Dept., teaches at UC Davis' Exotics Department and the veterinary teaching hospital there. There is no crypto in any of those tests. I have the same tests done on every single newly acquired gecko, and repeated after a 90-day quarantine.

Also, my hatchlings are housed individually on paper towel from birth, with designated water bowls and plastic hides, and they have no contact with any other geckos. I use laboratory-grade quaternary ammonium compound to disinfect ALL my bowls, hides, and tubs. Ammonia at this concentration is the only compound known to eradicate cryptosoridium on non-porous surfaces. (It even kills the AIDS virus).

Prof. Dr. Michelle Hawkins is the head of that Department, and was one of the vets that first started experimenting and using Paromomycin over 5 years ago in the treatment of crypto. She performed 4 necropsies on my sick geckos when I suspected they may have had crypto, and Dr. Frederic L. Frye performed one necropsy over the course of 9 months. They found that my geckos were being poisoned by aflatoxins the crickets were loaded with, and there was absolutely NO evidence of cryprosporidium in any of the geckos that had those post-mortems.... and those geckos were severely stressed.

If every leopard gecko has crypto, then surely it would have 'popped' up in my colonies by now? Wouldn't Ron and/or Phillippe have notified me if my gecko(s) tested positive? I really do feel confident that my geckos are not infected.

 

[Lottiz]

I got his mail too. I don't know what to say...but it's very interesting thread, I think...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I just spoke to my herp vet, Dr. Kenneth Harkewicz (do a Google search on his name), about how prevalent Crypto is in Leopard Geckos and if he agreed with the information that RT published on the subject. He actually raised his voice to make a point in his answer... "That is utter nonsense! I can't believe there is as much mis-information given out, especially by those that have so much influence in the reptile community!"

He confirmed that it is totally false that all Leopard Geckos have crypto. He said that all reptiles have a small level of coccidia in their GI systems, and stress levels and improper husbandry can cause cause immuno-suppression which can result in those 'normal' levels growing out of control into a full-blown infection, but NOT crypto.

I asked him how certain I could be that I do not have crypto in my leopard gecko colonies, and his response was, "Unless you get your geckos from the breeders that supply the large chain pet stores, or do not practice the fastidious quarantine protocol you do, you can be 99% assured that you do not have crypto."

I invited Dr. Harkewicz to be a guest on our chat to discuss crypto, and he said he'd think about it. He says he can't type that fast... LOL!

 

[Kotsay1414]

Thanks for the information guys. I've got one question though. Is Crypto like the AIDS virus where it can be transfered from the mother or father to the offspring?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Thanks for the information guys. I've got one question though. Is Crypto like the AIDS virus where it can be transfered from the mother or father to the offspring?

I'm not sure, but I know that this parasite is spread via oral/fecal contact, and according to Dr. Harkewicz it is not that easily transmitted casually. I honestly do not know if leo eggs are permeable enough to allow the oocysts to penetrate.

 

[Kotsay1414]

I'm not sure, but I know that this parasite is spread via oral/fecal contact, and according to Dr. Harkewicz it is not that easily transmitted casually. I honestly do not know if leo eggs are permeable enough to allow the oocysts to penetrate.

Thanks for the quick response. It will be interesting to see if it can be transmitted through eggs.