Iran

[malt_geckos]

I love SOAD, but I'd hardly call them an unbiased source

We wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for events that happened during Clinton's administration.

Amen that brother lol.

Matt

 

[The NY Gecko]

We entered Iraq under false pretenses anyways. What happened to all the WMD's that were supposedly stuffed down every rat hole from Basrah to Baghdad?


None of this is really the point though. The topic was created about Iran and future activities that may or may not go on there. I heard recently that we shut down all of the banks they had in our country in an effort to put a financial stranglehold on them, much like North Korea. However, the Aeitola is much more radical than Kim Jong-il, and as such I doubt this will affect them as much.


I would hate to see another meaningless ground war, but I think it's bound to happen anyways.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

We wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for events that happened during Clinton's administration.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...More republican propaganda in an attempt to divert attention away from one's self.

I didn't vote when Bush's first term was up. I think the ONLY reason why he served a second term was that there wasn't a worthy adversary. NOT because he's the perfect guy for the job. OK, and now I'm off my soap box.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I would hate to see another meaningless ground war, but I think it's bound to happen anyways.

I agree. I did not support going in to Iraq because IMO we weren't finished with Afghanistan yet, and our troops were already spred too thin... and still are.

 

[SteveB]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...More republican propaganda in an attempt to divert attention away from one's self.

I didn't vote when Bush's first term was up. I think the ONLY reason why he served a second term was that there wasn't a worthy adversary. NOT because he's the perfect guy for the job. OK, and now I'm off my soap box.

I'm a registered democrat and an employee of the department of homeland security. I do not say anything with the intention of creating propaganda, and most definitely would not do so to support a republican agenda.

I do agree that the reason Bush was reelected was not because of his qualifications, but because there was not a better qualified alternative.

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

I didn't vote when Bush's first term was up. I think the ONLY reason why he served a second term was that there wasn't a worthy adversary. NOT because he's the perfect guy for the job. OK, and now I'm off my soap box.

I am with you on that one, and like I said I voted for him. I don't look at the parties, but when that election came around I was Bush and Kerry, who had a shot at winning, I couldn't have voted for Kerry for anything.

 

[SteveB]

This scares me far more than Iran
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

By MATTHEW HICKLEY - More by this author »

Last updated at 00:13am on 10th November 2007



When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.


That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.


Uninvited guest: A Chinese Song Class submarine, like the one that sufaced by the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk


American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.


By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.


According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.


The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.


One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.


Battle stations: The Kitty Hawk carries 4,500 personnel


The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.


And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.


According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.


It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.


Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".


The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.


Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.


Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.


He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.


"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."

In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.

 

[OSUgecko]

It's also about power and control, which includes money, and seems to be our country's main objective. Isn't that why Middle Eastern countries hate us so much?

Middle Eastern countries don't hate us just because we're powerful... They hate us because we support Israel, and because their children have been taught to hate Israelis and Americans for generations.

 

[paulnj]

Ah, but it doesn't say were in the pacific it was Surfacing a sub is harmless, but it got the message across I guess .

 

[paulnj]

Middle Eastern countries don't hate us just because we're powerful... They hate us because we support Israel, and because their children have been taught to hate Israelis and Americans for generations.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SteveB]

I've got a friend who was on the Kitty Hawk at the time...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Middle Eastern countries don't hate us just because we're powerful... They hate us because we support Israel, and because their children have been taught to hate Israelis and Americans for generations.

This is VERY true. Just like when I grew up... we were taught to hate 'commies'. Heck, even as kids we called each other commmies when e were so mad we didn't know what else to call them! Hatred like that is a learned behavior.

 

[The NY Gecko]

China poses a bigger threat than military might, they control our economy. If they decide to hate us, they can ban our companies from operating there, and then we are in a serious situation.

 

[OSUgecko]

This is VERY true. Just like when I grew up... we were taught to hate 'commies'. Heck, even as kids we called each other commmies when e were so mad we didn't know what else to call them! Hatred like that is a learned behavior.

I understand what you are saying, but Americans have NEVER hated anyone the way the Middle Eastern Islamic extremists hate us and Israel. I don't think any of us truly understand hatred so severe that it drives them to send their children/pregnant women/etc. into other countries with bombs strapped to their backs (encouraging this in the name of their "god") in order to kill innocent people that have never hurt them personally.

Even after 9/11, I never saw anyone encourage their child to intentionally blow themselves up, even to kill Osama (military volunteers are totally different in my opinion - they are RISKING their lives - not outright committing suicide); much less innocent people.

America is VERY GOOD (as a whole and in comparison to other countries) at cutting the number of civilian lives lost to a minimum - this is something that we have always strived to do. Middle Eastern extremists thrive on "collateral damage" and the deaths of innocents.

 

[SteveB]

Coincidentally, I was forwarded this in an email from a friend in Israel this morning. I thought it worth posting here due to the relevant subject.

Nonie Darwish Speaks Out


Those unfamiliar with Nonie Darwish MUST read this:
Nonie Darwish was born in Cairo, and in the early 1950s moved with her family to Egyptian-occupied Gaza, where her father, Lt.-Gen. Mustafa Hafez, was appointed by President Gamal Abdel Nasser to command Egyptian army intelligence. Hafez founded the Palestinian fedayeen units that launched terrorist raids across Israel's southern border. Between 1951 and 1956, the fedayeen killed 400 Israelis. In 1978 Darwish moved to the U.S. During a recent visit to Jerusalem, she said in an interview:
"Israel really brings hope to the region. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that allows religious freedom. Even though it is the tiniest country in the region, it is not afraid to allow Muslims to have mosques to pray in; it is not afraid to allow Christians all these freedoms. It is really a credit to Judaism that it doesn't have the possessiveness Islam has. You know, it's amazing, with all the land the Muslims have, and all the wealth from oil, and all the armies, that no Arab country is secure in its existence. Why else would 1.2 billion Muslims feel threatened by five million Jews? It says a lot. And I've learned that the fear and hate are by design - of Islam's religious educators, its political leadership and its intellectuals. Hatred for Israel is part of how the Arab world operates. They need an enemy."
"Islamists are blinded by envy and can't understand Israel's success. They say it must be due to conspiracy and not merit. They have forgotten that Jewish success is due to a culture that promotes excellence and is blessed with self-discipline, education, dedication and a drive to leave this world a better place. There is no conspiracy there! If Arabs want to compete with Jews, let them do it in the realm of innovation and education, and not by terrorizing and eliminating the opposition. Arab mistakes are blamed on Israel, the West, past injustice or colonialism. Looking at a map of Israel in relationship to the Arab world tells us that Arabs don't need land; they need tolerance."
"America's defense of the Muslims against the Serbs, the Afghani Muslims against the Soviet Union, feeding Somali Muslims starved by their own leadership, received no credit in the Muslim world. In fact, the results are just the opposite; the more we try to help stabilize the region, the more we are despised. Muslims do not want to be rescued by infidels. This is a proud culture that is easily shamed by feelings of dependency on non-Muslims."
If you're unfamiliar with Nonie Darwish, the daughter of a 'jihadi martyr', click below to view her website and to obtain a copy of her book, Now They Call Me Infidel. She's an amazing woman.
Shalom and blessings, Leah
Visit "Arabs for Israel" website

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/

 

[OSUgecko]

Right on, Steve. Israelites and Jewish people in general have been hated wherever they go since their origins by almost everyone... just because of who they are. It's been driving me nuts lately how the media, leaders, and even everyday Americans have been snookered into believing that the Israelis are horrible people. The fact that some idiots seem to consider people like Jimmy Carter and Amenijihad to be relevant and accurate sources for information on Israel is beyond me.

America's the only country that has consistently supported the Israeli nation and is one of the few places on earth that has minimized persecution of Jews. I for one hope we continue to do so, and that we don't turn our backs on them when they need us most.

 

[Gecko]

I doubt we will go into Iran. We don't have the man power or political will at this point. Once they get nuclear weapons troops on the ground are very unlikely.

The situation is very complex. Different arab/muslim groups dislike us for different reasons.

 

[GeckoStud]

I don't like the idea of invading another country... we shouldn't really have invaded Iraq to the degree that we have. Let foriegn affairs be just that, foreign... I love our country but we butt into other countries like its our job... and its not we should be worried about our own country and the people here not someone across the world. Heres an idea, instead of spending money on a fruitless war why don't we spend money trying to I don't know fix our teetering healthcare system, social security, or a cure for cancer... those three seem like much better canidates... Just my 2 cents.