Is it cruel to keep reptiles in captivity?

[Jayme]

There is no doubt in my mind that leopard geckos (and other pets for that matter) are much better off in captivity when kept under proper conditions. But it just reminds me of the cubicle thing: I would rather live in an unstable, unpredictable environment instead of in the security of a little cubicle job every single day. But as has already been said, there is the question of their intelligence. What do they care as long as their needs are met and their stress levels are low? I don't suppose the animals realize this though. I've had many reptiles: chameleons, bearded dragons, geckos.. Some might recognize me as their protector, but would nonetheless make a run for it as soon as they could. I don't understand reptile intelligence since there is very little reading on it, but I suppose that behavior made me wonder if they would rather be free to explore or to live in safety and comfort. Kind of like Brave New World if anyone has ever read it, haha.

Maybe that's it. My reptiles frequently get attitudes at me when I don't let them go where they want to go, so maybe that's all it is. XD

Isn't it just fascinating how something with supposedly low intelligence has the capacity for curiosity and learning to an extent?
Sorry if I'm all over the place, I'm just thought spewing.
Thanks for all the replies, I love reading all the different perspectives.

 

[CallDr]

What I have been thinking is really how big a tank or enclosure is really big enough to have a happy and healthy Gecko. I know you can keep them ( one) in a 10 gal but it just seems small to me. I mean how far can they move around in a flat 10 with the essentials? Is that Cubical space?

If I had to do it all over again..... I would have a 15 or 20 long as a set up with some what a natural environment as possible. Like more rocks, logs , and ledges you see some here have. More places to hide and hunt.

I have thought it would be cool if we had some way to release the crickets or what ever at random times and places in it. Thinking this would encourage them to hunt for it's food.

Ps..... Jayme. Thats a beautiful Gecko under your screen name!

 

[Blacksupra94]

I've been thinking heavily about this recently.

We don't know , nor will we ever know if the reptile is intelligent enough to know if it's happy in the class box or not, we can only guess. We only keep these animals out of greed much less breed millions of them a year leading too thousand who are mistreated or reach amateur death. In the wild no animal , not even dogs need us to survive and we don't need them too survive. If only we could live in harmony with each other but that's a far stretch to the sky in this world of concrete.

I understand if they are bred in captivity that it should make no difference to them, but sometimes I sit and stare at the 20 gallon tank my gecko lives in and wonder ...

On another note, it's a shame that deforestation and the illegal animal trade have driven off so many wild species that were created for this earth

K , my sustainable development class did this too me

 

[Blacksupra94]

The ONLY problem I see might be keeping reptiles without letting them breed. From what I know, certain reptiles have a breeding season where they're hormones skyrockets. I'm not sure what they feel or how stress they get if they don't find a mate. I would imagine its something like, being horny and can't do anything about it.

This is interesting, never thought about it. Can anybody else elaborate on it?

 

[JoshuaTrana]

Okay I have a few things to say.

First off we talk about reptiles in captivity not beeing as happy as dogs or birds possibly. But was earth created with us having pet cats dogs and birds? no someone decided to keep them at one point and they just became more and more docile of the generations, kinda how i feel leos have.

Second like someone else says a lot of our leo morphs couldnt survive in the wild the ywould stick out to bad, and they have everything handed too them. And if you think they arebt happy in tubs go european, take a 50+ gallon make a natural terarrium for them and put a pair or a colony in there and see if they are happier. A lot of european keepers think animals are happier this way.

Third dont think of it as a cubicle. What if someone wanted to provide you with a free house, food, medicine, and anything else you needed at no cost to you. Would you say no?

 

[Jayme]

CallDr: Thanks! I love my little buddy, Jasper. ^__^

"Third dont think of it as a cubicle. What if someone wanted to provide you with a free house, food, medicine, and anything else you needed at no cost to you. Would you say no? "
! That's a good point. Though it's hard to compare humans and reptiles at all because of the differences in brains and perceptions of the world and so on.

So maybe because their perceptions of the world are different, as long as the animal doesn't fear you, expresses desire to go back into its tank at least sometimes as a place where it can feel safe, and has its needs met, maybe then it's ok.
I don't know, ethical topics aren't one of my strong points.

Just from my observations, it seems my gecko dislikes being unable to go where he wants to go, yet 'enjoys' using me as a tool to get what he wants (food, a lift out of the cage, etc).

I also wonder how much intellectual stimulation geckos need, if any? I'd really like to read or do research on this subject, haha.

 

[CallDr]

CallDr: Thanks! I love my little buddy, Jasper. ^__^

"Third dont think of it as a cubicle. What if someone wanted to provide you with a free house, food, medicine, and anything else you needed at no cost to you. Would you say no? "
.

A jail cell is what size? ( No...lol ) We would consider that a cubicle...lol.

I have no idea what is "cubicle" or "sufficient captive cage" size. I have no idea what they tolerate or not.

It would be a good study to find out for example a 10 with the basics and a 20 long so called decked out with sort of natural habitat.

 

[mmyers80]

Don't get me wrong, I love keeping reptiles. But the other day as I was trying to find the right college major for me, I knew I wanted absolutely nothing to do with a cubicle. And then it occurred to me.. these animals are kept in glass tanks for their entire lives.. Wouldn't it drive them insane? I have my gecko in a 20 gallon, but is that really enough space for a living creature? That can't possibly compare to how they'd live in the wild.

I also feel bad for my house cat as well, who is so desperate to get outside and explore.

I mean sure, keeping animals like this is best for their health and safety, but how is the quality of life? Especially if the animal is living in a tub?
Some people might say that reptiles enjoy their human companionship and therefore it's not problem. Which I can't prove or disprove.. but what if they don't?

I'm rather disturbed by these thoughts. I might give up reptile keeping and just get a dog instead.

What do you guys think?

I think this is something any considerate keeper goes through from time to time. Keeping a large volume of turtles, I am ALWAYS looking for ways to improve their accommodations, because I feel bad limiting where they can go.

We know it's not natural for them, but there are pros and cons for each side, a lot of which have already been mentioned. Aliza's post below really hits the nail on the head.

I think in general, most reptiles "need" adequate food, climate conditions and shelter. The less they have this, the more they need to work to acquire them. There is also an aspect of their habitual behavior. For this reason, I feel that captive bred geckos, kept with appropriate husbandry will not have a "problem" with their situation. I'm less comfortable with the idea of wild caught reptiles. I feel that we can meet their food and climate needs in captivity, but they have habitual behavior (necessitated by their living conditions) to range further. I would imagine that a wild caught animal that can change its habits because it's getting its basic needs met will do well in captivity, but a wild caught that can't change those habits will not do well in captivity.

Aliza

Some people do anthropomorphize reptiles, an example being a woman insisting her snapping turtles enjoy being held, and that they chirp at her. :main_rolleyes:

Truth of the matter is, reptiles really are instinctual. Their behaviors are typically engaged by natural cues. For example, hibernation. It is triggered by dropping temperatures, changing light cycles, etc. If those changes weren't taking place, they wouldn't NEED to do it.

The best you can do by your reptiles is to meet their needs, and disrupt them as little as possible. Additional space is beneficial for exercise, but sometimes too much space can stress a reptile in captivity.

There are definitely reptiles out there that should NOT be allowed to be kept as pets, like certain monitor species (like Niles) or turtles (Sulcatas, snappers, etc.). These are animals whose basic needs exceed the common keepers resources.