Leo not eating!

[zet]

About your leo:
- Sex: Female
- Age & Weight: 1.5 years, 88g
- How long have you owned your leo: 15 months
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend): Pet Store

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo: Once every 2-3 days.
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now: Acts completely normal
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe: No.
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal): Seems normal
- When was the last time he/she went: 1.5 weeks ago.
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on

Leo has stopped eating since about Jan. 1 2013. She would eat normally before, but stopped all of a sudden since. Right before she stopped eating I did feed her some supers - but stopped after reading about them. She threw up one super once and I stopped feeding her after that. I've kept trying to feed her once every couple days (normal schedule) and she would eat 1-2 mealworms and then stop. She's probably eaten a total of 5 mealworms since she stopped eating normally at the beginning of the year. I've even tried giving her a waxworm to eat, but she wont even eat that - which is what's worrying me because she's always eaten a waxworm no matter what. She was still pooping regularly for a couple weeks after she stopped eating, but she's stopped pooping completely now. She's about 9-9.5inches long. She was about 99g before she stopped eating and she's now 88g, dropping steadily every week. She still looks healthy, but I'm still worried.

I know brumation is common with leos so I guess my question is should I be worried or is it just her going through brumation? She did not stop eating like this last year and I have not induced it in any way, I've kept temps the same and everything. I'm considering taking her to the vet, but would like everyone's advice first: if this is normal or if I should really take her to the vet.


Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size: 48L Tank
- Type (ex. glass tank)
- Type of substrate: Porcelain tile
- Hides, how many, what kind: 4 Hides. Warm, cool, humid. One half rock, against-the-wall type in the warm side.
B) Heating
- Heat source: UTH with controlled temp probe.
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side): 88F-94F hot, 70F cool. 20%-55% Humidity.
- Method of regulating heat source: Temp controlled monitor with probe.
- What are you using to measure your temps: Probe and digital thermometer.
- Do you have any lights (describe): Just natural light through window (Tank is not placed directly behind window).
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females): 0
- Describe health, or previous problems

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much): mealworms, ~20 every 3 days. 1-2 waxworms once every 2 weeks.
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect): Dropped in front of leo from chopsticks.
B) Supplements (describe how often)
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) Repashy calcium plus: dusted every feeding.
- What are you gut loading food with: Carrots


Thanks in advanced!

 

[sausage]

I would like to say shes still burmating due to the time of year and weather (mine still are) however because shes lost a bit of weight and has been sick i would suggest seeing a vet to check shes okay and dosnt have any parasites ect.
good luck and fingers crossed.

 

[zet]

Thanks for the advice. But she is not sick (not that I know of, at least) and she's only lost 10g in the past month and a half. From 99g to 88g. But I will still considering a vet visit.

 

[SC Geckos]

Thanks for the advice. But she is not sick (not that I know of, at least) and she's only lost 10g in the past month and a half. From 99g to 88g. But I will still considering a vet visit.

11 grams lost in that amount of time is alot of weight. (10% of her body weight) I think a vet check-up would be a good idea.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I agree with Brad. Leos don't generally lose much weight when brumating. I can't see anything in your care that would cause it, but you never know what might be going on without realising it. You could wait a bit more if you wanted, but if she continues to lose weight, definitely time to see a vet.

~Maggot

 

[zet]

Thanks guys, I will schedule a vet appointment soon and see what's up!

 

[zet]

She just ate 2 wax worms! I'm hesitant to feed her any more waxies and tried a mealworm, but no luck on the mealworm. I left 5 in a glass dish to see if she'll go for them overnight. I feel this is pretty good progress considering she wouldn't give even the waxie's a second look before.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

That's good. Have you ever tried hornworms or phoenix worms or roaches?

~Maggot

 

[sausage]

you said in your original post that she "threw up" that is being sick! she was sick after not eating alot there for requires a vet visit. if she was sick coz she over ate, thats a diffrent story.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

you said in your original post that she "threw up" that is being sick! she was sick after not eating alot there for requires a vet visit. if she was sick coz she over ate, thats a diffrent story.

Reptiles can regurgitate food for reasons other than being seriously ill. Superworms are very fatty, which could have been part of the issue. It seems that fatty worms are the mostly common regurgitated foods - have never heard of a cricket being regurgitated. Of course, if it were to continue to happen, especially with something much less fatty, then there is probably a real problem and definitely should be checked out. Even now, being checked out wouldn't be a bad idea.

~Maggot

 

[katie_]

Reptiles can regurgitate food for reasons other than being seriously ill. Superworms are very fatty, which could have been part of the issue. It seems that fatty worms are the mostly common regurgitated foods - have never heard of a cricket being regurgitated. Of course, if it were to continue to happen, especially with something much less fatty, then there is probably a real problem and definitely should be checked out. Even now, being checked out wouldn't be a bad idea.

~Maggot

I have at least one gecko throw up a cricket after shipping every month

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I have at least one gecko throw up a cricket after shipping every month

Oh, I'm sure it's possible. I'm just saying it appears much more common for fatty worms to be regurgitated than things like crickets or roaches. I've heard many people complain about their leos regurgitating fatty insects, but I hadn't heard of any instance of crickets being regurgitated.

~Maggot

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Worms also have more indigestible chitin in their exoskeleton than crickets or roaches which I would think would be more reason for them to be regurgitated than their fat content. IMO healthy geckos shouldn't be regurgitating anything unless they're under a lot of stress (like from shipping or a day at a reptile show).

 

[zet]

you said in your original post that she "threw up" that is being sick! she was sick after not eating alot there for requires a vet visit. if she was sick coz she over ate, thats a diffrent story.

She threw up the superworm after eating about 3 of them. I figured it was because she overate and threw up because of instinct or impulse. Sorry, I should've clarified.

Maggot, I would like to try hornworms or phoenix worms, but no stores sell them here and I'm not sure if she'll even eat them at the moment given her situation. But if they sell them in small quantities online, I may give it a try! I've always wanted to give her more variety of feeders.

 

[Kylerbassman]

3 supers is a big meal for a Leo. My 5 year old female takes about 2-3 large supers every 2-3 days and she's big. Variety is good but supers aren't a bad feeder, in fact they are better then mealies due to there nutritional ratios. Dubias are definitely the best. Crickets are good if you breed them yourself, but I don't really trust store bought crickets anymore. Lots of horror stories. How quickly did they eat the supers? I usually will feed one at a time and give them a few minutes between each one to give the Leo time to get the super down. I feed mainly supers with occasional dubias, mealies, and used to feed crickets. I just found a local guy to get smaller quantities of dubias, so that might allow me to use them more often

 

[Kylerbassman]

If it had been a while since your Leo last ate and your Leo ate them quickly, then it's really not surprising for them to regurgitate.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

If it had been a while since your Leo last ate and your Leo ate them quickly, then it's really not surprising for them to regurgitate.

As someone who used to go very long periods without eating, I can attest to this. Sure-fire way to make your stomach very, very mad. X)

~Maggot

 

[zet]

3 supers is a big meal for a Leo. My 5 year old female takes about 2-3 large supers every 2-3 days and she's big. Variety is good but supers aren't a bad feeder, in fact they are better then mealies due to there nutritional ratios. Dubias are definitely the best. Crickets are good if you breed them yourself, but I don't really trust store bought crickets anymore. Lots of horror stories. How quickly did they eat the supers? I usually will feed one at a time and give them a few minutes between each one to give the Leo time to get the super down. I feed mainly supers with occasional dubias, mealies, and used to feed crickets. I just found a local guy to get smaller quantities of dubias, so that might allow me to use them more often

It was my first time trying supers with her so I fed her just like I did mealies. I didn't give her any wait time. As soon as she downed the first, I dropped another. I soon realized that was a mistake. Also, I'm aware that 1 super is approximately equivalent to 10 mealies, but she just seemed hungry so I gave her a third ):

When she regurgitated the super it was when she was still eating normally, so it wasn't a haven't eaten in a long time situation. Either way, I'm pretty sure I fed her one too many! She hasn't eaten any of the mealworms I dropped in a dish yet. I am planning on bringing her to a vet next weekend.


And also, the supers were really hard to keep alive. Even with a fresh, decent sized piece of carrot in there, they would still cannibalize. I'd clean out the dead supers and find another half eaten one or two by the end of the day. Was I doing something wrong?

 

[Kylerbassman]

That sounds odd. I have never had that problem with supers. How were you keeping them? what where you gut loading your supers? So your Leo still wont eat anything at this point? When did you feed the supers? Brumation is normal this time of year, however, loosing weight like your Leo has isn't normal. Vet is definitely needed

 

[Kylerbassman]

My Leo's barely eat mealies anymore. They like supers now and anytime I buy mealies they get wasted. Since your feeding less amount with supers, digestion is actually easier than tons of mealies. Like I said, my adults eat 2-3 supers every 2-3 days and will occasionally skip meals (not my doing, they just won't eat for a few days sometimes) but they really shouldn't loose weight, at least not that much.