Morph Help/ Phantom x red eye enigma

[planetgecko]

I am purchasing a group of leos, next week i know the morphs of all of them. But dont quite understand these two. They are down as Phantom x Red eye Enigma. But i thought a red eye enigma had to be a bell and a phantom has tremper in it. I am waiting details on the parents and will post when i find out. Any way here are the pics of them. Too me they just look like Snow enigmas. but i am un educated on phantoms and leos they can help produce. So any clue on what they are would be great! Thanks!

 

[justindh1]

Looks like a Mack Snow Enigma to me. It is also a frowned upon when you mix albino strains.

 

[planetgecko]

i know its frowned upon, i didnt produce them, so can any moral arguments be kept of this thread please. Thanks.

Thats what i reckon but i do think it will be a tug enigma the phantom has to come in somewhere else it woudnt be there so if its a snow surely its a tug snow??

 

[lillith]

Phantom = Tremper albino mack snows
Red-eyed enigma = Bell albino enigma.

+1 for mack snow enigma, double het bell and tremper.

 

[planetgecko]

always thought a phantom was tug snow? But thats a snowglow aint it? Also doesn't a phantom have Sht in them? I cant be doing with these names to be honest. Thanks guys. Ill lable them as mack enigmas double het for bell and tremper. Just so you know i wont be breeding them with any type of albino strain or het albino neither will its offspring.

 

[xanderville]

Phantoms are TUG snow trempers

 

[planetgecko]

Phantoms are TUG snow trempers

I THOUGHT SO!! Lol, have been out of the leo world for around a year so i thought my memory was playing tricks.:main_huh:

The parents where the label so the parents was a phantom and a red eye enigma, So looking at these id say that the were infact TUG Snow enigmas het for bell and tremper??

 

[rickmoss95]

Here is exactly how Craig came up with his Phantoms. He took the Urban Gecko line snows and crossed them into super hypo carrot tails. then he took the best offspring from those breedings and bred them to his best sunglows. he then took the best offspring from those breedings and crossed them to one another. he coined those babies Phantoms. I know "planet" and "xander" are correct...just thought i would share exactly how the origonal Phantoms were created.

 

[justindh1]

i know its frowned upon, i didnt produce them, so can any moral arguments be kept of this thread please. Thanks.

I am sorry but that wasn't an argument, more like a statement. This is a forum and if you don't want people to post what they think then I don't know what to say.

If I was you I wouldn't even think about buying these but that's me. You can have fun with that mess.

 

[lillith]

I personally am not entirely convinced that TUG snows have no mack in them.
And they're tremper albino snows, including some sunglow influence; so yes, that makes them a type of snowglow.

 

[planetgecko]

I am sorry but that wasn't an argument, more like a statement. This is a forum and if you don't want people to post what they think then I don't know what to say.

If I was you I wouldn't even think about buying these but that's me. You can have fun with that mess.

I wanted peoples opinions on the morph not on ethics of leo breeding. There are millions of threads on here talking about that.

 

[lillith]

Well, they are related issues. Breeding requires good recordkeeping and some ethics.
Don't get all freaked out or offended, it's not like they were harsh about it or anything.

I wouldn't buy them, either.

 

[planetgecko]

well ethics in the leo world are hypocritical to say the least, you cant breed two forms of albino with other because it makes working out what is what harder yet its ok to produce enigmas when theres a high chance of enigma issues and breeding albinos full stop is considered wrong in many other breeding cirlces but in the leo world its completely fine despite the fact of poor vision etc. So forgive me for not wanting this to become about ethics etc.

I am not offended despite the fact i am new i have been keeping and breeding leos for a long time, my collection was stolen so i am starting again and i am a bit rusty on the genetics. I have purchased a group and these two just so happen to be part of that group as the seller wanted to sell them all together. I merely wanted to know for sure what morphs they are, and to be honest i havent really been given that answer yet as most the answers all contradict each other. Oh well thanks for the help anyway.:main_huh:

 

[justindh1]

You've been told several times that is is a Mack Snow Enigma. I haven't seen where anyone else has contradicted that in this whole thread. Everyone else is debating what exactly a Phantom is. You are obviously wanting to talk about ethics when you are bringing up other topics completely unrelated to this one at hand.

Phantoms are basically line bred to get that quality. In my opinion, unless you breed a Phantom to another Phantom then your not going to Phantoms. It's like taking a SHTCT and breeding it to a normal. Your not going to produce anything like your original SHTCT.

You can't be so offended on the world wide web or otherwise your not going to be able to tolerate anyone.

 

[rickmoss95]

I personally am not entirely convinced that TUG snows have no mack in them.
And they're tremper albino snows, including some sunglow influence; so yes, that makes them a type of snowglow.

what you believe...is fine. Craig told me personally that his line of snows came from a wild caught group of leopards he aquired a long time ago. they are a COMPLETE dominant snow, so there is NO super form in them. if they had mack snow genes in them, there would be a super form. i have heard that if you breed a mack to an UG snow that you get a "super"...i dont buy it. i personally believe that you are simply getting a visible mack and ug snow in one animal. as far as i know, and correct me if im wrong...but when these "super" snows are bred to normals, all the babies were not snows, which means that it is infact NOT a super snow. ...and i never stated that the above mentioned animals were not snowglows...not sure if that was directed at me? what exactly were you stating when you said, "AND THEY'RE TREMPER ALBINO SNOWS, INCLUDING SOME SUNGLOW INFLUENCE; SO YES, THAT MAKES THEM A TYPE OF SNOWGLOW" i stated how Craig developed the first phantoms....i did not say anything about them not being snowglows...? i do not wish to argue with you Lillith, i just wondered what you meant about that...thats all.

 

[im faster]

i wouldnt buy them. but clearly you dont care of peoples opinons..

Just going off this thread i would not buy anything form you either.

 

[justindh1]

What confuses people was naming them TUG Snows/Line Bred Snows but this confusing type of thing seems to happen when people name a new morph. They aren't even related genetically besides being leopard geckos. They were line bred to obtain a gecko with a lighter base color. TUG Snow X Normal would theoretically give you normals with 50% TUG Snow blood.

 

[rickmoss95]

What confuses people was naming them TUG Snows/Line Bred Snows but this confusing type of thing seems to happen when people name a new morph. They aren't even related genetically besides being leopard geckos. They were line bred to obtain a gecko with a lighter base color. TUG Snow X Normal would theoretically give you normals with 50% TUG Snow blood.

tug snows are complete dominant. this means that if you breed a UG snow to a normal, HALF the babies will be snows in the first generation...not "theoretically give you normals with 50% TUG snow blood" that makes no sense genetically, especially if it has been PROVEN dominant

 

[xanderville]

The phantoms have been interesting to see how the genetics work. I like the info I am seeing on this thread because I was never positive on how they were developed or how the genetics work behind them. This year I have bred a phantom to a phantom. So far the female has laid 8 clutches. The first four clutches all 8 have been phantoms. I have yet to see any normal tremper albinos or any super form of the sort. I will watch the next four clutches to see if any super form pops out (I kind of doubt it will happen).

The phantoms were given to me by someone who got them from TUG. Just a fun little side project I wanted to test.

On a side note, some of the babies are really turning light in color. They are holding more white to them at about 2 and a half months of age. Maybe they will yellow a little more over time. Only if I could get my hands on some of Albey's line-bred snows.........

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

i have heard that if you breed a mack to an UG snow that you get a "super"...i dont buy it.

Rick this has been PROVEN. So you can BUY whatever you like but it's fact.

But back to the OP. If it was Red eyed enigma x Phantom then yes you have a TuG snow enigma double het Tremper/Bell.