Mox and my recent Rescue!

[MoxVoid]

Here are some shots of my little "Mox" ( I chose that name as it is genderless and will work in either case, but I may change it after) it is approx 3-4 months old not sure what morph yet, or the gender its too soon to tell but Mox's cuteness is certain! Also a real climber! (if you think you can tell its gender I will include a decent shot)

Now for some slightly less light hearted photos.
Here is the Rescue I haven't given it a name yet and am unsure of its gender its approximately 6-7 years old and when I got it the poor thing was very underfed and it has a lot of trouble opening its eyes

Also if anyone can help identify the gender I would really appreciate it! ( I am thinking male so far as there are the v shaped pores but they are very pale so I'm not sure) here are the pictures I manged to get sorry for the quality

 

[WulfSC]

The first leo is cute. The second guy I feel so sorry for. Have you taken it to a vet yet? It's very underweight, it appears, to be 6 or 7 years old. Leos store fat in their tails, and that poor little fella looks like he has a very skinny tail. Have you tried feeding him waxworms (like two or three a week) yet? Also, do you feed him dusted mealworms/crickets? I'd make sure to start him on calcium dust (I use both calicium w/ and w/o D3). I'm not a professional when it comes to geckos, but it appears that the rescue leo has both femoral pores, and hemipenal bulges which would indicate that it's a male. I hope that helps. And good luck with both leos... please keep us updatd on the rescues health. Good thing you rescued him.

Oh, and maybe the second leos name should be Lucky. It looks like you may have rescued him just in time.

 

[Hannibal]

Mox is adorable! I hope your rescue bounces back without any trouble for you. He looks like he has great potential, keep us updated on the progress.

 

[MoxVoid]

I have given him some dusted mealworms the first day I got him ( I have only had him for 3 days now) I tried giving him some dusted crickets but he wouldn't eat them with the vitamin dust on it.

I'm using ZooMed's "Reptivite reptile vitamins with D3" I took a q-tip and wetted his mouth, and then put some of the power on his lips and he licked it off. I would rather not resort to that and get him to just eat it normally but I think he really doesn't like it however its certaintly in his best intrest!

His previous owner had never given him any vitamins, (prepare your self for the reason why...) he kept it on calci sand and said he figured when the gecko needed vitamins it would just lick the sand. I can't imagine what the poor thing has been through.

When I got there the poor thing was sprawled out on the sand with crickets hopping all around. Legs out spread eagle. I thought for sure it was dead. There was over 40 crickets in the cage with him crawling all over it, likely they were nibbling at his eyes. It had large patches of skin left on its legs and head. The owner said it had been like that for a week or two.

I honestly had the mind to report him. But I think it was a case of ignorance and inability to actually get the food for it. The old owner lived 2 hours away from any pet store that sold crickets or mealworms so he only got fed when the owner went to the city. Then when it did get fed it was all at once, and overwhelming like it was when I got there. I wasted no time getting him out and home but if you think he looks scary now you have no Idea.

I will keep doing what I can and perhaps look into a vet however I think its main problem was the cricket over load and the general lack of consistent feeding/vitamins.

If any one has any other ideas for things I should be doing for it please shout out! Also I am curious what you think Mox's morph is.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Cute baby The rescue is a sad case indeed. Be sure you keep it quarantined and practice strict hygiene, avoid any cross contamination with bowls, utensils, feeders. Use disposable stuff. There could very well be a parasitic infection that would not show in a standard fecal test. I would suggest you get a regular one done tho, in case it can be treated. Some warm baths daily for a couple weeks will help with the eyes and rehydrate him as well. Be careful with food and pace the amounts so he doesn't regurgitate. It's better to slowly gain weight with a healthy diet than try to put it on in a hurry. It's a male btw. Good luck with him

 

[WulfSC]

Very good advice, Laney.

As for the morph of Mox... I'm not sure... maybe a tangerine, possibly a SHTCT???

Check this website. It might be able to help you:

http://leopardgeckowiki.com/index.php?title=Category:Morphs&from=A

 

[MoxVoid]

Thats good advice, thanks for the link to the morph page! It would be cool if Mox turned out to be a tangerine it looks most like the one in the picture.

So far the rescue has been eating at a reasonable pace I have been slowly working him up. He managed to eat 6 small - medium sized crickets yesterday, and 2 meal worms the day before. He wouldn't eat anything so far tonight its his first night being in the cage with the little one and the ride up may have stressed him. The Mox has taken note of the rescue but doesn't seem bothered by him, while the rescue hasn't seemed to see Mox yet/if he has he doesn't care.

As for the quarantine the problem is I only have a 20 gal long that they are both in at the moment... When I rescued it was more of a "HAVE to save this gecko NOW" kind of thing and I knew 2 geckos in a 20 gal would work but I wasn't thinking about all those factors

I wasn't thinking about parasites.... I have a 5.5 gal tank that had some aquarium plants in it I don't mind tossing them and I could put him in that but I have nothing to heat it with... What do you think I should do?

 

[LZRDGRL]

You really need to separate those two geckos. The big one could have parasites. Also, they both look like males to me (although with the little one, that's not very easy to tell yet, but I think I see bulges). They'll fight and possibly hurt/kill each other if the little one turns out to be male, too. There are very cheap glass aquariums for under 20 bucks at Pet**, and fish stores sometimes sell used aquariums for 5-10 dollars. It doesn't need to be anything fancy. An over-the-cage mesh is just about 5 dollars, and a small/medium heat mat isn't that much, either. If you use lids for dishes and plastic containers/deli cups for hides, your set-up will be adequate and cheap.

I've seen worse rescues. If he's just emaciated and not parasite-infested, you'll get him up and going in a few months. He doesn't miss any toes or has eye infections, so you might be lucky! The little one looks like a Tang, and it looks like he's going to lose his spots as he ages. They're both pretty.

Chrissy

 

[M_surinamensis]

Separate them immediately.

Quarantine has already been broken and consequentially both animals need to be regarded as having increased risk factors. Regular fecal examinations for both animals, separation and quarantine level standards for cleanliness and cross-contamination for the next six months.

Now the lecture.

Good intentions are not a suitable substitute for good standards of animal care and safe practices. In trying to help one animal, you have endangered two. Contemplate, for a moment, the very real danger that you may have exposed your existing pet to a virulent disease agent; parasites, bacteria and viruses which could potentially be responsible for the condition of the rescued animal which could kill your existing pet.

Several of your comments also strongly indicate that you are unable to really deal with the realities of a rehabilitation scenario. If you are unable, for whatever reason, to provide the level of care and commitment required for rescue work, then you should not take it upon yourself to engage in it to begin with. You clearly mean well and have noble intentions but these by themselves are insufficient to deal with the additional burdens and difficulties that are generally associated with animals which have been mistreated, neglected or are sick. If you cannot, for whatever reason, provide the extra care, attention, expertise and expenses that such rescue animals incur, you have no business trying to save them. This may be harsh, but your total lack of quarantine proves your inexperience and indicates beyond any doubt that you are not yet capable of handling the added burdens or rehabilitation work.

Separate the two animals immediately. Institute much more rigorous quarantine procedures. Take both animals to a vet for regular analysis for the next six to twelve months. I'd also recommend finding someone else who is more experienced and better qualified to handle the newer of the two as its health issues are corrected. Beyond that, I sincerely hope that there was nothing communicable involved in its current condition and that your long term pet has not been endangered by your actions.

 

[supperl]

To be honest, and I don´t want to just scare you, to put these 2 together was not the best you could have done.
The smaller one looks healthy and the bigger one looks like it either has not been fed for monthes or it has tons of worms or it has Cryptosporidia and in this case you other geckos will be infected pretty sure, too.

I´m quarantining all animals, even big adult healthy animals will be quarantined and tested for Cryptos and worm. The risk at Leopardgeckos to get desease into your long term animals is very high.

I wish you all the best with these 2 animals and that it is worms or just not feeding

Take care
Thorsten

 

[MoxVoid]

Separate them immediately. ...


Several of your comments also strongly indicate that you are unable to really deal with the realities of a rehabilitation scenario. If you are unable, for whatever reason, to provide the level of care and commitment required for rescue work, then you should not take it upon yourself to engage in it to begin with. You clearly mean well and have noble intentions but these by themselves are insufficient to deal with the additional burdens and difficulties that are generally associated with animals which have been mistreated, neglected or are sick. If you cannot, for whatever reason, provide the extra care, attention, expertise and expenses that such rescue animals incur, you have no business trying to save them. This may be harsh, but your total lack of quarantine proves your inexperience and indicates beyond any doubt that you are not yet capable of handling the added burdens or rehabilitation work. ...

... Beyond that, I sincerely hope that there was nothing communicable involved in its current condition and that your long term pet has not been endangered by your actions.

Well I have separated them and will be getting a 10 gal tank later today for the mean time I have placed the rescue into a critter keeper for a few hours, and am in the process of cleaning everything.

I agree with much of your comments and I repeat I am sorry however my inexperience extends to rescues NOT to gecko keeping! I will keep my gecko and will continue to provide the best quality of care I can. I care quite a lot for both of them.

The have only been for a little over a day, and have kept their distance. Even assuming the worst case sinario I don't believable given thier behavour and time that anything could have spread from the rescue. It quarenteened it self in one of the hides and almost never came out. (I know thats not good enough)

In any case they are separated now and I have cleaned the tiles and changed the paper towels and taken out the hide he was in. I soaked my little one to try and clean his skin in case any contagions may have been on the surface level.

Its not that I couldn't afford separate tank/ supplies its just that I didn't know, and at the time of those postings pet stores were closed so I couldn't get an extra tank anyway. I can say with a fair amount of certainty that another week or even a few more days the rescue would have been toast. IF you REALLY think I am in capable of looking after them I will see about getting someone else to look after it but I doubt they could or would be willing to do much more then I would/could do for the poor guy.

I will keep you all posted on what is going on with them, Im not a bad owner, I let one thing slip. Albeit a large one, but I believe I did the right thing and I don't believe I put Mox at as large a risk as you seem to believe. And you can bet that if there is anything wrong with either of them I will seek proper treatment. I have been looking for a vet in my area that will see reptiles (first 2 wouldn't) and when I find one I will schedule a visit.

So please don't waste any time rapping me out whats done is done, and I am working to correct that! I'm focusing on solutions! And am looking forward to solutions you people present as well!

Thank you all for your advice I really appreciate it. I know your only being harsh because you care for geckos, and I want you to know I only put them at risk unknowingly because I cared.

 

[Kristi23]

I hope the rescue will be okay. Make sure you get him to a vet soon.

Mox is a cutie and I really love the name.

 

[MoxVoid]

I still plan on taking him to a vet soon but I was thinking today I still have the phone number of its previous owner, and was wondering if there were any questions I could ask to find out if it might have/be more prone to, contagious diseases or parasites?

 

[supperl]

You should ask the vet for a facle test for worms and cryptosporidia.

Also I would advise to put your healthy one in a cricket box and put it into the new tank when it arrives and let the rescure in the old one.

It has been proven, that even an hour is enought to infact an healthy animal with C due to an infected one.
I don´t want to bash your or something like this, I just won´t to give you a good advise cause even if they haven´t been sitting together, it was running throught the tank and if it has C only the running around the cage is enought. The others only have to lick on something where it was or just a feeder is eating some leftovers and and and.

This desease is the worst think that happend to the Reptilehobby and their are not many desinfectend able to destroy it.

I know their is no prove for it having C but it looks like a good example for it and I just wan´t to give you all good advise I can give

I realy hope that it is only bad treatment from the former owner and that it will get healthy and big again!
You can try and fat it up for example with the slury receipt thats somewhere around (or just take Dyne^^).

Which you all the best and keep us updated

Take care
Thorsten

 

[MoxVoid]

So posting here just because I don't know where else to post it! Here is an

Update!

I had a fecal exam done, and the rescue is clean of parasites and crypto! It really was a case of just under feeding/neglect! I am thinking of moving him back into the main tank now that I have the green light wondering what you all think of that ?

Also when feeding the rescue I have noted he always seems to stagger. like as he approaches the food he moves a little forward then back and repeats also he seems to always lung just to the right of it.

Both Mox and the rescue are about ready to shed. I have two very moist hides in the tanks but Mox isn't using the one it has. Instead Mox was rubbing its nose against the dry wall of its normal hide. I tried moving it into the moist hide but he just ran out after. Worried Mox will rub him self raw.

Thats the update so far!

----edit-----

After a little more prodding I got him in the moist box again, this time he is pushing aginst the smooth walls in there so I expect all will go well shortly!

 

[sausage]

im so glad hes okay youve done a good job :main_thumbsup:. i maybe wouldnt put them back together just yet, not because of infections or any thing but just so you can watch the rescue more carfully. just to make sure he is still getting the right amount of food and pooping ect. as it sounds like hes a lot slower than your nimble mox

 

[MoxVoid]

im so glad hes okay youve done a good job :main_thumbsup:. i maybe wouldnt put them back together just yet, not because of infections or any thing but just so you can watch the rescue more carfully. just to make sure he is still getting the right amount of food and pooping ect. as it sounds like hes a lot slower than your nimble mox

Yes it was a large relief! And Your absolutely right Mox snaps up anything that moves almost as fast as I can put it in the cage/in-front of him! I am still dusting the rescue is finally come around to eating dusted food now too! (still using zoomed's Reptivite with D3)

Last night the both shed at the same time however the rescue is still at it while mox finished around 5 am being his first shed(since I got him) I stayed up all night making sure things went well. I also plan to come up with a name tonight instead of just calling him the rescue!

Do you guys have any suggestions?

 

[IslaReina]

Don't put them back together at all until you know their sexes. Two males will kill each other and a male and a female will breed, causing unnecessary stress. I would keep them separated if I were you, it will be way easier to monitor each of their health and eating.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I had a fecal exam done, and the rescue is clean of parasites and crypto! It really was a case of just under feeding/neglect! I am thinking of moving him back into the main tank now that I have the green light wondering what you all think of that ?

I think I'm going to try explaining why quarantine is used a little better.

At its simplest, you want to keep new animals away from your existing pets because you want to ensure that everyone is healthy and that nothing about either animal will make the other(s) sick or ill or injured or in some way less than good.

So you take the new animals for a vet check, since a vet can perform tests and analysis that will sometimes identify a problem that you can correct.

You also maintain quarantine for a period of time as a necessary precaution because the vet is limited in the types of tests they can perform and there is a lot of room for what are known as "false negatives" where a test shows clean because the test is not perfect.

A fecal examination involves putting a dye (and generally a suspension solution, though there are other ways of examining feces beyond just floats) into the animal's waste in order to make some signs of a parasite or infection visible. This usually involves making the offspring of whatever might be present in the animal's gut show up. It primarily looks for eggs and larvae, spores and bacteria and (if the vet is bothering to be thorough) viral agents. Adults of these parasites and nasties rarely are expelled with waste, basically once at the end of their life or under circumstances where the gut is so crowded they are evacuated. Not every potential organism that can be living in a gecko's stomach breeds at the same rate though, each individual bowel movement might contain signs of the infection or it might not. If the parasite or bacteria goes through a reproductive cycle once a week (it can be much longer or shorter, this is an example) and you picked up a bowel movement for testing in day four out of seven, it may appear clean to every test the vet can run. False negative; not everything can be tested for all the time with guaranteed accuracy.

So we quarantine. About the absolute bare minimum duration that is worth anything at all is ninety days. One hundred eighty is much, much better- longer if you can. We do this to keep the potential for cross contamination from manifesting and we do it so that we can observe the health of the new animal for an extended duration of time without ambiguity or confusion. If you have one gecko in one enclosure in one room and the other gecko in another enclosure in a different room, you can be pretty sure which gecko is responsible for all the poop, any vomit or blood or weird sheds or anything else that you might find that is abnormal. If two geckos are housed together, you lose that certainty, it could have been either one. The period of time is intended to make sure that anything which may be wrong with them, internally and invisibly, has time to manifest while your existing pet(s) are still safe from being contaminated. To cover the expected life cycle of all different kinds of unpleasant illness causing organisms that might be living inside the new animal. That way if something does seem wrong, you can identify it and have it re-checked by a vet and it won't already be too late.

Even beyond the disease aspect of things, you should keep them separate for a decent period of time because you have one animal that is unhealthy and brand new to you. You do not know its habits or its behaviors, you have not observed its dietary needs or analyzed how stressed out it is. You have no baseline for what is normal for this new guy and he's in poor condition, so he needs to be alone while you fix him up. Even two females will have some behavioral interaction that expresses dominance, one will be a more aggressive feeder and the other gets less food or one will quietly bully the other out of hides and away from spots that the big-shot wants to use. It doesn't always manifest as biting and really obvious fights, there's a lot of body language and territorial dominance involved that is very subtle to us but quite significant to them. The very last thing the new guy needs is to have to live with another gecko while still healing.

Six months from now, if you have done four-six fecal tests that all came back clean and have seen no further signs of anything that would cause you to worry about his health and you have identified the genders with certainty, if you want to try introducing them... then it's your call. There are still advantages to housing them individually but at least you'll be away from the really big dangers involved in sticking a new, unhealthy animal in with your long term pet. If any health problems arise while he's in quarantine, it resets that countdown clock; six months from the last clean fecal and healthy checkup (which should be performed regularly as a precaution or more frequently if there's some symptoms).