My new frog room

[Tony C]

Ya think thats neat what you do. So what do you do with all the frogs? What is your "Hobby Goal" perse? Do you supply pet shops? Your own shop? online sales and such? Or are you just addicted to frogs

Too personal??

My current goal is to establish several species in the hobby: Agalychnis annae, A. moreletii, and A. lemur. I want them to be as common as A. callidryas and will sell privately, to local shops, or to wholesalers, whatever it takes to get them out there. I built and managed a retail pet shop once and never want to do it again, I am perfectly happy to be the guy behind the curtain.

 

[slayer]

WOW! To say im impressed is an understatement. Pure quality.

 

[M_surinamensis]

What is the space requirement per frog, like with gold fish it's 1 gallon per fish, what's the ratio for frogs?

I just cringed so hard I pulled several muscles. There was a small booming noise because I folded in on myself so fast that it left a vacuum behind. Now I am limping around hunched over and can't raise my left arm past shoulder height.

 

[fuzzylogix]

nice setup tony, very clean... but where is the cat viv?

 

[Dog Shrink]

I just cringed so hard I pulled several muscles. There was a small booming noise because I folded in on myself so fast that it left a vacuum behind. Now I am limping around hunched over and can't raise my left arm past shoulder height.

Care to explain why?

 

[Tony C]

What is the space requirement per frog, like with gold fish it's 1 gallon per fish, what's the ratio for frogs?

There is no set rule, it depends on the frog. The only "rule" I'm comfortable with is that "Bigger is better", but as a general guideline most of the commonly available tree frogs can be housed in a 20 gallon aquarium or equivalent terrarium.I prefer to give them more space, most of my smaller tree frogs will be housed in 22.5x17x24 Protean terrariums, the larger and more active species like A. annae and A. moreletii will be housed in 45x17x24 Proteans. I haven't decided on a size for my dendrobatids yet, but I'm thinking about 33x17x18 for pairs of D. tinctorius and related frogs.

 

[Tony C]

Care to explain why?

He posted a good explanation of why the "inch of fish per gallon" rule is a bad one here. Much of the same reasoning can be applied to frogs or other terrarium animals.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Ah I see, it has been YEARS since I owned fish so... thanks for the clarification.

 

[M_surinamensis]

He posted a good explanation of why the "inch of fish per gallon" rule is a bad one here. Much of the same reasoning can be applied to frogs or other terrarium animals.

Thanks Tony. I was all set to write pretty much the same thing again. That saves me time.

Although that post on that thread barely touched on some of the other factors involved. That was strictly discussing the physical requirements necessary to maintain life.

Your post here discussing the frogs touched on the other important factor- behaviors necessary to maintain health (which is different from a simple state of "alive") and quality of life.

The activity level and activity inclinations of a species also play a large role in determining what kind of space- size, shape and how it is filled, is ideal for a given animal. A small, active species of tree frog with the capability of jumping a six foot distance in one shot potentially needs more room than a larger but less active species. Whites, for example, have a pretty low space requirement when looked at as a ratio to their mass. Or something like a horned or pyxie frog can me massively larger but not require the same volume of space or the same kind of arrangement (shape of space can be even more important than the volume of it) because they are terrestrial ambush predators that are naturally inclined to sit in one spot for three days straight just waiting for something edible.

The same factors apply to fish, to reptiles... to anything really.

Which can sometimes mean that people asking questions about housing requirements can't get a straight forward and simple answer. They just get an explanation of the variables and a sliding scale.

 

[Dog Shrink]

I think you put that quite well actually and being an animal behavior specialist I can totally understand what you mean about providing a "complete habitat" by providing the opportunity for the animal to feel like they're at home and satisfying those primitive instinctual needs. It's like owning a great dane versus a jack russell. The Dane is HUGE in size but phlegmatic and lazy compared to the small go go go jack russell who would need more space to burn off that energy.

Thanks for the indepth answer. Much appreciated

Thanks Tony. I was all set to write pretty much the same thing again. That saves me time.

Although that post on that thread barely touched on some of the other factors involved. That was strictly discussing the physical requirements necessary to maintain life.

Your post here discussing the frogs touched on the other important factor- behaviors necessary to maintain health (which is different from a simple state of "alive") and quality of life.

The activity level and activity inclinations of a species also play a large role in determining what kind of space- size, shape and how it is filled, is ideal for a given animal. A small, active species of tree frog with the capability of jumping a six foot distance in one shot potentially needs more room than a larger but less active species. Whites, for example, have a pretty low space requirement when looked at as a ratio to their mass. Or something like a horned or pyxie frog can me massively larger but not require the same volume of space or the same kind of arrangement (shape of space can be even more important than the volume of it) because they are terrestrial ambush predators that are naturally inclined to sit in one spot for three days straight just waiting for something edible.

The same factors apply to fish, to reptiles... to anything really.

Which can sometimes mean that people asking questions about housing requirements can't get a straight forward and simple answer. They just get an explanation of the variables and a sliding scale.

 

[monkeytechahoo]

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but thank you M_surinamensis for that post. It's one of the things I try to get my kids & current husband to see when they want a pet.

Tony, if I ever decide frogs are in my future, be warned, I'm gonna bug you. *lol*

 

[RampantReptiles]

HAHA funny reference. Anywho I was just curious what the common name is for the A. lemur? I could not find this species anywhere. Did you mean Hylomantis lemur?

My current goal is to establish several species in the hobby: Agalychnis annae, A. moreletii, and A. lemur. I want them to be as common as A. callidryas and will sell privately, to local shops, or to wholesalers, whatever it takes to get them out there. I built and managed a retail pet shop once and never want to do it again, I am perfectly happy to be the guy behind the curtain.

 

[Tony C]

HAHA funny reference. Anywho I was just curious what the common name is for the A. lemur? I could not find this species anywhere. Did you mean Hylomantis lemur?

Lemur leaf frog is the common name, and Hylomantis lemur is its old name (and Phyllomedusa lemur before that). Hylomantis and Pachymedusa were recently reclassified as Agalychnis.

 

[Ian S.]

I just cringed so hard I pulled several muscles. There was a small booming noise because I folded in on myself so fast that it left a vacuum behind. Now I am limping around hunched over and can't raise my left arm past shoulder height.

ROFL!!!

Nice room! I wouldn't mind being a frog living at your pad..Good work!