In my views and experiences, you first one is a Flame dalmation
Some smaller traits he/she has is:
Gold fringing, Portholes and very minor chevron patterning
The second one imo is a Harlequin. More or less, a harlequin is a fire morph who's been bred reccessivly. It starts to show up with the darker lighter contrasting.
i would think the mother is a fire dalmation and the father would be a tiger/brindle w/ chevron
Thanks! But they have different parents