New to breeding...have a few q's...

[brendan0923]

Hello everyone,
I have had my female leopard gecko, Cleopatra for a while and I would love to get into breeding, so I have purchased a mack snow with the intention of breeding...
however...
I do not know what strain of albino Cleopatra is, and after reading around on the forums it seems that breeding unknown albino strains is frowned upon. I acquired her from a local chain pet store, so I unfortunately have no genetic information whatsoever. I do not want to breed for money or get into a business, but instead to experience and witness the amazing breeding/reproductive behaviors of these animals, but at the same time I want the offspring to go to good homes. So, I am wondering if there is some way I can figure out what strain albino she is by examining the expressed phenotypes, test breeding, or if I'm just screwed and can't breed. It is my understanding that breeding with unknown genetics can muddy up the gene pools, which I don't want to do. It's a shame that I'm figuring out all of this after getting the gecko, but I suppose that's my fault. Here is a pic of Cleopatra: If it helps, the eyes are kind of a light brown color.

I apologize if this is stupid, but I am pretty new to all of these different morphs and such; I breed dart frogs so I always know what I'm dealing with, but the leopard gecko market seems to be saturated with all kinds of morphs and crosses of morphs etc. and I don't want to screw up everybody's collections with unwanted unknowns, and I can't permanently keep the offspring.

Bottom line: What are my options? Should I breed them? Is there a way I can find out what she is? If not, could the offspring be labeled as 'albino mack snow,' or would nobody take them?

The mack snow in question is not of breeding size/age and is currently in quarantine. Sex is unknown, anyway.

I want what's best for the animals and the hobby. Though I'm rather disappointed, I do not want to exploit the hobby and disregard ethical standards for my own selfish reasons.

So if anyone can answer these questions I have, that would be very helpful. Thanks in advance.

 

[Music City Geckos]

Breeding is breeding. If the animals in question will be sold/given away as Pet Only animals, I personally have no issues with it. But you did say that your other gecko was a Mack snow and was rather small. If you wanted to, you could always wait till you know what the sex if themack snow is and get another gecko of the opposite sex. In the mean time do a little reading on genetics and figure out what you want.

I I am sure there are going to be nay sayers that are going to come on here and blast you for wanting to breed with unknown genetics. Like I said before, if the animals are to be Pet Only there isn't any issues.

 

[brendan0923]

Breeding is breeding. If the animals in question will be sold/given away as Pet Only animals, I personally have no issues with it. But you did say that your other gecko was a Mack snow and was rather small. If you wanted to, you could always wait till you know what the sex if themack snow is and get another gecko of the opposite sex. In the mean time do a little reading on genetics and figure out what you want.

I I am sure there are going to be nay sayers that are going to come on here and blast you for wanting to breed with unknown genetics. Like I said before, if the animals are to be Pet Only there isn't any issues.

I haven't heard of that before. Does "Pet Only" mean that they aren't meant to be bred?

 

[Music City Geckos]

Yes it does

 

[brendan0923]

Alright, I'll probably do as you said and let the mack snow grow and get a gecko of the opposite sex from a reputable breeder. Unless there is something that differentiates tremper albinos from the others that I could use to identify it? If not, what morphs should I look for to breed with the mack snow? Thanks for all the help btw.

 

[Neon Aurora]

Good choice. =) Try using this: Leopard Gecko Genetics Calculator

Mack snow is a co-dominant morph, so you have choices. Try plugging some morphs you are interested into the calculator and see what you will produce.

 

[brendan0923]

Good choice. =) Try using this: Leopard Gecko Genetics Calculator

Mack snow is a co-dominant morph, so you have choices. Try plugging some morphs you are interested into the calculator and see what you will produce.

Cool, thanks!

 

[acpart]

The only problem with the "pet only" issue is that you can say "pet only" all you want, but the people who get the geckos from you are going to do what they want to do.
The only way to find out what strain of albino you have is to test breed, and the problem is that if you're wrong, you now have offspring of more than 1 albino strain which is, as you know, a problem.
Here is a range of suggestions for what you can do:
--keep Cleopatra as a pet, grow your Mack snow and when you find out the sex, get a nice gecko of the opposite sex from a breeder and go for it
--if you got Cleopatra from a big chain pet store, there's a good chance (but no guarantee) that she's a Tremper. If you're hell-bent on breeding her anyway, pair her with a tramper and hope that you get albino offspring
--breed her to whoever you want, sell the offspring as "pet only" and cross your fingers that your buyers comply.

Aliza

 

[Tonylilgys]

You can do what ever you what, as you stated you wanted to see it for the 1st time get a feel for what your are doing. Do your research use the calculator to help you. If you see that you enjoy breeding and raising young. You can keep your F1 babies and get a Male Tremper Albino the next year to test breed Cleopatra with. Like acpart stated if it came from a big pet store their is a great chance it will be Tremper. I don't recommend going out buying another gecko just to get experience with breeding and neonate care.

 

[Kristi23]

I agree with Aliza. You can't be sure that pet only will stay pet only. When you don't know what albino strain your gecko is, it's best to buy one for breeding with known genetics and background only. Your mack snow could be het bell and your albino may be tremper. That's not something any breeder wants out there with the possibility of messing things up even more. If you really want to breed, you don't have to buy something expensive. You could even get another mack snow and make super snows. But I personally would not breed the albino you have or anything without knowing exactly what it is. Or just keep pets and don't breed (at least not yet). There is way more to breeding than putting two geckos together to make babies. Ethical breeding is very important and many breeders are still trying to clean things up. I like new breeders because it's good for the hobby, but we need breeders who put in the time to learn and do it the right way. In the end it's up to you, but that's my opinion. I started with a breeding trio for pretty cheap. Just a mack snow het blizzard male and two blizzard females. I knew enough to make sure everything was compatible and went from there.

 

[Kristi23]

I will agree that most albinos from pet stores are trempers, but I've also seen people getting bells from them, too. So you still can't be sure on that.

 

[Tonylilgys]

If she had said she was breeding to sale offspring or create some type of morph I would totally agree don't breed them. But this sounds like to experience breeding and care. In most cases her babies will be given to friends as "pets" not someone looking to breed but to say there friend created that gecko, her 1st hatchling will be kept as we all have done. "IF" she decides to stick with breeding for "profit" she will have experience under her belt and, will be responsible enough and knowledgeable enough to make her one decision.

 

[Kristi23]

If she had said she was breeding to sale offspring or create some type of morph I would totally agree don't breed them. But this sounds like to experience breeding and care. In most cases her babies will be given to friends as "pets" not someone looking to breed but to say there friend created that gecko, her 1st hatchling will be kept as we all have done. "IF" she decides to stick with breeding for "profit" she will have experience under her belt and, will be responsible enough and knowledgeable enough to make her one decision.

The problem is that so many "pet only" geckos end up being bred. It is what adds to the problem.

 

[brendan0923]

The problem is that so many "pet only" geckos end up being bred. It is what adds to the problem.

Yeah I agree, that was my initial issue with using the "pet only" method. Not only this, but also it could be considered hypocritical for me to take what should be a "pet only" gecko just to turn around and breed it. I would like to believe that she is a tremper, but like I said, not 100% sure.

So I'm not breeding right now. I'm going to keep her as a pet for now, and I will wait and see how this mack snow does and go from there. Like I said earlier, I'll probably just get a gecko of the opposite sex from a reputable breeder.


EDIT: Also, that link to the morph calculator doesn't work. Any suggestions for which morphs I can potentially breed to the mack snow (when I'm ready to do so, of course)?

 

[acpart]

The nice thing about a Mack snow is that when bred to any other gecko it will produce some Mack snows. If you get another Mack snow you'll get some super snows which I think are quite lovely. Unfortunately, many Mack snows get yellow and sometimes they get kind of ugly gray yellow. One thing to consider would be to get a nice tangerine to breed it to and see if you can get some nice colors in your offspring.

Aliza

 

[cowana]

EDIT: Also, that link to the morph calculator doesn't work. Any suggestions for which morphs I can potentially breed to the mack snow (when I'm ready to do so, of course)?

I have the Reptile Calculator App on my iPhone so if you think of a morph you want to try, just private message me. I can plug it in and send you a screen shot of the results.

I did a Mack Snow x Mack Snow so I could show what a screen shot would look like.

 

[acpart]

The website for the calculator is reptilecalculator.com

Aliza