Newbie needs help ASAP please!

[Moppel]

Hi there, I'm sorry I'm just jumping in like that without introducing myself first, I will do that later. But right now I need advice.

We have two Leopard Geckos that are roughly a year old now, maybe a couple of months more, not sure. We are first time Gecko owners, or anything reptile period. We had both Geckos together in a 20 gallon long tank, and they seemed quite content. I was having a hard time sexing them, especially since the bigger one would not let me pick him up. We just assumed they're both males, called them "he", and I kept checking. At some point I was fairly sure the smaller one is a male, so I figured the bigger one would be too, since he's quite a bit bigger. We kept an eye on them to make sure they don't start fighting, but they didn't really show any interest in each other.

Then, about a week ago, I caught them mating (I wasn't sure, but when I looked it up the pics were a perfect match). So I checked again, and the smaller one is clearly a male, and I finally got to pick up the bigger one, and she is clearly a female. I feel really stupid, we should have separated them right away, but all we were worried about was them fighting.

Okay, so now they are separated (we separated them right away). The bigger one, the female, is now in our 10 gallon spare tank (we will get a bigger one). She has their house, since the smaller one never uses it, a nice dark moss house, a climbing rock and a water dish. And a heat lamp of course. Temperature is around 90 degrees on the hot side of the tank. Moss house is on the cooler side of the tank.

We feed medium sized crickets (they're quite big) every day, two for the big female, four for the smaller male. Twice a week we dust them with calcium powder, as recommended by our local reptile store.

So, now to the problem. I found an egg earlier today in the female's tank. It was laying behind the regular house in her potty corner. I did a lot of reading online in the past week, and apparently you need an incubator? And you need to remove the eggs right away? And it all sounded so complicated. So, I panicked, I took the egg out and held it up to the light, and I didn't see anything inside. It was kinda soft, not like a hard chicken egg shell. It had an uneven yellowish-whiteish surface. We don't have anything that seems to be required for gecko eggs, so I threw it out. I feel so guilty, I hope I didn't kill a little gecko baby. :main_no:
What do I do now? The female has been sleeping a lot yesterday and today, but she's eating fine, no appetite problems. I looked at her belly a couple more times, but I don't see any eggs. I didn't see any before today either though. She does have a huge belly, but then again, she is quite a big gecko with a very fat tail.
Oh, she also looks like she's about to shed, she's turning all white.

I am completely clueless about gecko breeding. I need any and all advice I can get right now. So far, I have not seen any more eggs. How far apart should they come? And how many should we expect? I need instructions! Everything I have found online is geared towards people looking to breed, not complete newbies like us, with a situation like ours.

Please please please don't yell at me, I know it was stupid not to separate them sooner. Right now I need advice on what to do next, how to make sure the female is okay, what we need to do to keep her healthy through this, things like that. What to do with any possible future eggs! I don't know if I can bring myself to throw out another one.

I'm sorry this got so long, but I thought the more detail the better. If you have any advice for me, Thank you!!

 

[jxl22]

*note i an a noob as far a Leos go, my info may be wrong*

From what i've read leos can lay multiple clutches(like puppy litters lol) at any interval.

you could buy a incubator (expensive) or make your own ( less expensive) if you would like to keep, feed, and raise the babies. note this will require more enclosures(and food,water,heating, supplies) once they hatch.

I THINK you could give your Leo to a local reptile store (anywhere that breeds them, not a +++++/smart) and they could take care of her while waiting for more eggs.

 

[Phoenix1115]

I think your best bet is to freeze any more eggs that come along. The one you found sounds infertile so no worries there. If you aren't prepared for babies freezing them is the "humane" way to keep them from hatching. If you are intent on keeping all the babies then we can tell you how to incubate. You could potentially get eggs every two weeks from now on. Also, heat lamps aren't required. What you need is a UTH (under tank heater) like a heat pad. Those are CRUCIAL to having a healthy gecko

 

[Moppel]

Oh my goodness, thank you so much!! She can keep laying eggs every two weeks even though there is no male? Holy cow! But they'll be empty, right?
Ugh, we were told that the heat LAMPS are an absolute must, and the pads are optional. So, what size pads do we need to get? Does the entire underside of the tank need to be covered? Or just one side, for the hot side?
What about those UVB lamps? I have read so much conflicting information about that one. Some say not necessary, others say it's a must. We have one on the big tank, but not on the spare one. I was going to get one, but is it necessary?
The freezing of any eggs, that will kill them, right? Once they're frozen, do I throw them out? It's not a fun thought to possibly kill baby geckos, but we are in no way prepared for eggs and babies. How complicated would that be?

What else are we doing wrong? Is the feeding schedule okay? And the calcium? We started out with crickets and mealworms, but the reptile store guy said not to feed the worms to geckos under one year old. Same for Dubia roaches. We also used to have a calcium dish in the tank at all times, since that's what the gecko book said. But the reptile guy said that is actually quite harmful for leos.

Oh, when we get the undertank heating pads, do we still use the heatlamps, or do we get rid of them?

Thank you so so much for all the information, you are so helpful!

 

[Moppel]

The first picture is the main tank before we put the desert background on, which you can see in the second picture. The background wraps around three sides, so only the front of the tank is open. You can also see the two geckos in that pic. It was taken before all this happened.

Does that look like an okay setup to you? Other than the missing undertank heating pads.

Edited to add: apologies, I didn't know the pics would come out that big. They look a lot smaller before they post.

 

[Phoenix1115]

The heat pad should take up about a third of the tank. Once that's there you don't need any sort of lamps at all.

What substrate are you using? Anything loose is a not so great idea because it can be easily ingested and cause impaction. Repticarpet, slate/tile, shelf liners, or paper towels are your best bet. Everything else looks pretty good.

How old are your Leos? I personally only feed mealworms. My schedule is:
Babies: 10 every day dusted with Repashys Calcium Plus every feeding
Juvies: 10 every other day dusted every feeding
Adults: 10 every two days dusted every or every other feeding.
Pure calcium dish in tank at all times.

When I used to feed crickets I did the same timing but I did 6 per gecko instead of 10.

As for the rest of the eggs, they should be fertile if the mating was successful. They can retain sperm and use it for the entire season. I personally only introduce my pairs once and then I get eggs for the next few months from just the one mating.

 

[Moppel]

You're awesome!! So we don't need those UVB lamps either, right? Just double checking, we want healthy geckos.

We use carpet as substrate. We do know that loose stuff is not good, yay, we do know something! Does it have to be the repticarpet? We use regular carpet and put a fresh one in once a month or sooner if needed. I also pick up the poop regularly.

Are crickets harmful to feed? Our geckos are around a year old, we got them around March, and they were supposed to be roughly 4-5 months old, although they weren't sure. The geckos weren't itty bitty, I've seen much smaller ones at the petstore. I don't mind switching back to worms if that's better for them, but we have a prepaid card for 500 crickets from the reptile store that we just bought. If the crickets aren't good for the geckos, of course I'll throw it out, but otherwise I'd like to use it up.

I did not know that one mating can last all season. Yikes! I didn't see that anywhere. So, how many eggs can we expect, roughly? How many do they lay at once? We've only had that one earlier today so far. And are there any risks for the female? If so, what do we need to look for?

Again, thank you soooo much! This is great information. Btw, the smaller tank we had as a spare has pretty much the same setup, minus the background and some of the decos, not enough room in the small tank.

 

[jxl22]

You.

Uvb is not needed for leos.
Im n9t sure if regular carpet retains the heat good enough. The best substrate it slate as it retaons the heat very well. Im using paper towls ATM. But I will be switching my leo and BD to slate soon.

I would imahine its the same with leos as BDs. Any leftover crickets in the tank could bite your leo while sleeping. The best feeders are dubia roaches. Theyre really not as gross as they sound. I just bought a colony and should be self sustainable in a couple months. A single dubia has the nutritional value of three crickets, while having a smaller shel to meat ratio. Meaning they are easier to digest. Unless your in FL dubias cannot reproduce out of there enclosure, so you cannot be overrun by roaches in your house.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Hard to say how many eggs to expect but this late in the year I would expect not too many. I had one female lay only 3 clutches this past season and two others lay 13 each. Like Phoenix said, if you don't have an incubator and are not prepared for babies it is best to freeze an egg before throwing it away. This way you ensure that no baby hatches in a landfill or other horrific place if the egg happens to survive. Trying to raise them without an incubator can be done but if the temp in your house fluctuates and they are not kept between 80-88 degrees with minimal spikes they may hatch unhealthy or deformed.
Also, make sure your female has free access to pure Calcium while she is laying and make sure you're gut loading and dusting feeders with a good vitamin supplement. They do not need UVB light and Phoenix's other advice sounds spot on. Good luck!!

 

[Phoenix1115]

Crickets are fine to feed as long as they are all eaten right away. No UVB needed, and laying would only be harmful if she is less than 50g.

 

[Poppy243]

Also, from what I understand, first-time breeders generally do not produce a lot of fertile eggs. They may lay but many if not all the eggs will likely be infertile. There are ALWAYS exceptions to this, obviously, but this seems to be the general trend.
If you get any fertile eggs and decide to keep them, you can whip together a cheap incubator pretty easily. You need a material that will retain the heat when you open it, a heat source, something insulated, a thermometer, and a material to place the eggs on that will retain some moisture. Also something like a tupperware with a lid to keep the eggs and hatching substrate in. I've seen online people use a UTH, a styrofoam ice chest, and full water bottles for heating and insulation. Then they just put the tupperware with the eggs on top of the water bottles in the ice chest.
You can purchase or build a space for any hatchlings. One way would be to get the Sterilite modular drawers from W-mart and some flexwatt heat tape or another heat source. It's cheaper than buying a rack from someone but easier than building your own.
As a note, I'm taking that info from my own research, not personal experience!
Don't worry if you feel you are making mistakes Mistakes are how we learn! Everyone has made them at some point, and usually anyone more knowledgable than yourself will be super understanding and helpful. Rarely will you be judged harshly for your mistakes Good luck!

 

[GreatGeckos]

I think you should go read a care sheet and it would give you a ton of information... My care sheet on my website would answer most if not all of your questions. Go to any reputable breeders website and they will all have care sheets, I would also recommend you buy a book on leopard gecko care if you think you need more info.

also from the sound if it the egg was most likely infertile ... Females first clutches often are.. Even more so in my exsperience when they only lay one egg for the first time. Don't beat yourself up , you're doing the research and the right things now.. That's what counts! Good luck and keep asking questions and looking around the forum , there's tons of valuable info here.

P.S. Leo embryos don't develope until about 2 weeks after an egg is laid so it's not like you killed a baby gecko. The egg will be dried out far before anything living has a chance to develop

 

[Moppel]

Oh my gosh, you guys are awesome!!
Slate, like what I get at Home Depot? And do I just clean it regularly and put it back in, or do I toss it and get a fresh one? How do I clean it best? What happens when they pee on it?

I really don't think we're up to attempting to hatch and raise baby geckos. So I guess freezing it is. So far we have not had any more eggs since yesterday morning. Also, we keep the temperature in our house around 72 degrees, we like it kinda cool. So it sounds like that would be way too cold.

As for Dubias, we tried them. The problem was that they are very fast, and our geckos not so much, so the roaches disappeared under the carpet before the geckos could eat them. I don't know if all geckos do that, but ours won't go after anything that doesn't move or they can't see. Sometimes they have crickets right under their nose, and the cricket doesn't move, so it's safe. When they go after a running cricket, and the cricket stops, the gecko stops, waits a moment, and then walks away. Our female is definitely a better hunter than the male. Although he's getting better too. We always make sure there are no live crickets left, we know they can eat the geckos while they're sleeping. But it's extremely rare that there's any survivors. Our geckos have a very good appetite.
I liked the roaches better than the crickets, since they don't stink like the crickets do. As for gutloading, we feed the crickets those little green gel "bites", the ones for feeder insects that are food and water in one. What would you feed the roaches? After switching to slate, escaping roaches shouldn't be an issue anymore, right?

Vitamin supplement, what do you recommend? So far we've only done calcium powder. So do we feed the vitamins on top of the calcium dusting or instead?

With the calcium dish, we were told that that can lead to calcium deposits on the bones and joints and is not good, and to only dust the crickets twice a week. Not true, I take it? And the heat lamp insert states that UVB lamps are necessary to prevent "metabolic bone disease" due to a lack of vitamin D3. But, that's from the manufacturer, and of course they want to sell their products.

Oh, what size of Dubias would you feed? We were feeding the little ones, and the reptile store guy said that they don't have enough meat on them and that's why crickets are better. What's your take on that? I saw that the adult Dubias can get quite big.

And a question just out of curiosity. Are gecko eggs always soft? Does the shell harden later, like chicken eggs?

Thank you thank you thank you!!

 

[Moppel]

Anthony, thank you! I do have a book on Leopard Geckos, that's the first thing I bought. And I have read, and bookmarked, a lot of caresheets online, but they just don't really go into detail. It's just the very basics, and some of them contradict each other. I will check out yours though, it sounds like you guys here really know what you're talking about.

How do I know from online websites which one is a reputable breeder? I've seen so many breeder websites, but like I said, they tend to contradict each other, so it's just very confusing.
I have the book "Leopard Geckos" by Gerold Merker & Cindy Merker & Julie Bergman & Tom Mazorlig. Is that a good one? Or would you recommend a different one?

 

[GreatGeckos]

Get repashy leopard gecko calcium plus, it has all the vitimans calcium and d3 the gecko needs .. Dust food with it once a week. Leave a bottle cap full of it in the tank the geckos know how much they need and will lick it up.
I use paper towels for substrate . I clean all tanks once a week , and more often if needed... I use clorhexadine solution once a week with cleanings.

I feed meal worms to my geckos in a small dish , for babies I add vionate powder to the dish of meal worms , the worms also eat this and it "gut loads" them. The babies will lick at the powder as well.. Adults I leave a cap of repashy calcium plus and dust feeders once a week... Twice for breeders. Hope this helps ! Good luck

 

[GreatGeckos]

I would recommend leopard geckos the next generation by Ron Tremper it's a fantastic writing... As for reputable breeders... Aliza , online geckos... Bold and bright .. To name a few have posted some great info (hope they don't mind me using their names in this thread). They all produce beautiful offspring and have nice info on their sites. Start with my and compare with theirs .. All of it is great info.

My care sheet is compiled from stuff I've learned hands on and things I've read from his book that worked for me.

 

[Poppy243]

Supposedly breeding and hatching leopard geckos is pretty easy. I've asked about it before because I'm in college and I may want to breed, but I didn't want to get into something super time-intensive. And I was going to have three females! Lolz
In regards to cleaning the slate, like most desert animals, geckos don't actually pee like we do. The white bit you see with the poop is the urate, which is their pee. It's extremely similar to birds, who also do not actually pee. The white part of the "poop" on your windshield is actually how they expel the nitrogen waste. When using slate, you should be able to just scoop the poop up with a spoon or a scooper of some sort. Then remove and clean the slate they poop on however often you need to. I might recommend putting sand under the slate you use to keep the slate from getting too hot. Sand should spread the heat out a little more, otherwise the slate could get too hot. Since they probably won't be directly on the sand, or will have limited access to it, it should be plenty safe. I believe it is washed fine-grade play sand that is recommended for use with geckos.
Leopard geckos do not need UVB light, generally. I think I may have read that for some morphs, like the albinos and others who have sensitive eyes, that could stress them out. Most calcium supplements have D3 in them. I dust my mealworms with Repashy Calcium Plus (found at pet mountain dot com for pretty cheap) and provide a dish with a calcium + D3 powder that is mixed with some of the Repashy. I generally dust the mealworms daily, both of mine are growing girls. Eventually I'd like to switch to Dubias. Dubias have a higher meat to shell ratio than crickets, according to what I've read. I think this still applies to smaller ones as well, but I'm not sure. To be honest, with adult leopard geckos, in the wild they don't think, "Oh, that prey is longer than my head is wide! I can't eat that!" With younger geckos I think you should be mindful of that (obviously a 20g gecko with a head about 3/4" wide can't take on an adult dubia). But with adult geckos, I think as long as the prey isn't extremely massive, they can take it on and be fine.
All the caresheets are going to say something a little differently, or have different opinions. Obviously the things that are the same are the most important to pay attention to. I don't want to say you can "pick and choose" what you decide to do on the contradictory things, because you can't necessarily leave an aspect out, but you can in a way choose what you want to do out of the different options people propose. Find the way that works best for you and your geckos in the end.

 

[jxl22]

Oh my gosh, you guys are awesome!!
Slate, like what I get at Home Depot? And do I just clean it regularly and put it back in, or do I toss it and get a fresh one? How do I clean it best? What happens when they pee on it?

you can keep it in there. clean with diluted bleach, or buy a reptile disinfectant

As for Dubias, we tried them. The problem was that they are very fast, and our geckos not so much, so the roaches disappeared under the carpet before the geckos could eat them. I

i use one of the mealworm dishes from pet co/smart that has the rounded edges. I mix them with the mealworms. the dubias cannot climb well and stay in the dish until eaten.

I liked the roaches better than the crickets, since they don't stink like the crickets do. As for gutloading, we feed the crickets those little green gel "bites", the ones for feeder insects that are food and water in one. What would you feed the roaches? After switching to slate, escaping roaches shouldn't be an issue anymore, right?

you can feed many different things, my recomendation would be a roach feed from the roach breeder that your buying from. some other things you can feed are, Cat/dog food, fish flakes, any feeder feed from +++++. i would recomend putting the dubia into the dish as i said before.

Oh, what size of Dubias would you feed? We were feeding the little ones, and the reptile store guy said that they don't have enough meat on them and that's why crickets are better. What's your take on that? I saw that the adult Dubias can get quite big.

I feed small dubias for my leo ATM. Any reptile person who you trust for information that says that crickets are better than dubias are not aware of the nutritional value. as i said in a post earlier dubias have a better meat:shell ratio. 1 dubia = 3 crickets ( of same size). they are easier for the reptiles to digest.

 

[Moppel]

I'm all excited now, I can't wait to make over the tanks and optimize everything. So much information here, it's awesome!! I can't wait to go shopping and set everything up. I'm just going to have to take notes, or just print this whole thread.

Oh, one more question. When we were feeding mealworms, they were in a closed tub covered with something that looked like sawdust and we kept them in the fridge. I think that sawdust stuff was supposed to gutload them. Does that sound about right? Or do we need to feed them something else for gutloading? And is it okay to buy the mealworms from ++++++++? We have one really close by, that's why we usually get the supplies there, except for crickets and cricket food, we get that at the reptile store.

Anthony, your care sheet is awesome! The best I've found so far. See, you really go into detail and you are very specific, something none of the other ones I found did. Yours is very clear and easy to understand, with advice that is easy to follow.

Oh, I guess I can't mention specific petstores, it got crossed out. It's one of the two big ones.

 

[GreatGeckos]

I'm all excited now, I can't wait to make over the tanks and optimize everything. So much information here, it's awesome!! I can't wait to go shopping and set everything up. I'm just going to have to take notes, or just print this whole thread.

Oh, one more question. When we were feeding mealworms, they were in a closed tub covered with something that looked like sawdust and we kept them in the fridge. I think that sawdust stuff was supposed to gutload them. Does that sound about right? Or do we need to feed them something else for gutloading? And is it okay to buy the mealworms from ++++++++? We have one really close by, that's why we usually get the supplies there, except for crickets and cricket food, we get that at the reptile store.

Anthony, your care sheet is awesome! The best I've found so far. See, you really go into detail and you are very specific, something none of the other ones I found did. Yours is very clear and easy to understand, with advice that is easy to follow.

Oh, I guess I can't mention specific petstores, it got crossed out. It's one of the two big ones.

Thank you, I took my time writing it, then rewriting it...I'm glad it was helpful.
***smart should be fine to get mealworms from - that "sawdust" stuff is usually oats of some sort.... That's not gutload that we refer too...you can use a good chick or hog mash crumble to gut load, or you can use something like flukers calcium cricket feed....those will work great.

Let me know if you have anymore questions Byrer ! Feel free to ask away.
My Email is [email protected] if you would rather Email.