Normal x ? Combinations

[Lena]

Generally what happens when combining a normal with a special morph gecko?

I'm pretty sure the normal morph is a dominant trait, am I right? So do they sort of mesh with other traits that are also dominant? Any interesting outcomes?

I'm asking because I'm getting a normal female from a friend and I may breed her.

 

[Greyscale_Geckos]

When breeding a normal to another morph, generally you get normals het (insert whatever morph you bred it to here).

Sometimes normals bred to tangs produce normals that have a tang influence.

But generally you'll just be producing normals that are het for another morph.

 

[Morph]

correct!

 

[paulh]

Traits are what you see; genes contain the information that is manifested physically as traits. The normal morph is not dominant or recessive because it is a trait, and only genes can be dominant or recessive.

Think of it this way. Each pair of genes is a station in an assembly line. Each station does its own thing, and the result of the work of all the genes is the product that rolls off the assembly line. If all the genes (assembly line stations) work as expected, the product is the normal product. In this case, a normal leopard gecko.

If both genes at one station (any station) do not work as expected, then the product is not normal. Our leopard gecko might be a Tremper albino leopard gecko, or a super Mack snow leopard gecko, or something else. All the stations in the assembly line worked normally, EXCEPT ONE. The abnormality in one station (gene pair) was enough to change normal to not normal. Because there are many stations in the assembly line, there can be many possible deviations from normal. What the deviation is depends on what gene pair is not normal. In other words, the Tremper albino gene is located at one station in the assembly line, the enigma gene is at a different station in the assembly line, the Mack snow gene is at a different station in the assembly line, and so on. And they do not shift from one station in the line to a different station.

Let's say that one gene in the gene pair works normally and the other gene does not. (The gene that does not work normally is called a mutant gene.) Sometimes the normal gene can pick up the slack, and the product of the assembly line still looks normal. In that case, the mutant gene is recessive to the normal gene. The Tremper albino mutant gene is recessive to its normal counterpart. In other cases, just one mutant gene in the pair is enough to make the product look abnormal. These mutants are either dominant or codominant to the normal gene. If the product looks the same when there are two mutant genes and when there is one mutant gene paired with a normal gene, then the mutant gene is dominant to the normal gene. If the product does not look the same when there are two mutant genes and when there is one mutant gene paired with a normal gene, then the mutant gene is codominant to the normal gene.

Putting mutant genes in the assembly line at more than one station can produce interesting results. One combination of mutants produces the RAPTOR leopard gecko. There are other combinations.

Mating a normal-looking leopard gecko to a special morph (a leopard gecko with mutant genes at one or more stations in the assembly line) could produce a normal-looking gecko or an abnormal gecko. It depends on whether the mutant genes are dominant, codominant or recessive to there respective normal genes. For simplicity, we ignore the many, many genes that are normal.

 

[Lena]

I have a good understanding of genes, but thanks for the info. I meant the normal gene that manifests itself as a trait so I simply referred to it as a trait. :x I'm basically interested in how the normal gene interacts and what results I can get with this normal female. Things aren't black and white either, genes can mix, am I wrong?

So basically I'm looking for is a dominant gene (other than normal) that would show itself in the offspring if the mother was normal.

 

[mynewturtle]

Enigma. Enigma x normal = 50% enigma, 50% normal.

 

[paulh]

Enigma, Mack snow, and giant are either dominant or codominant mutants.

Here's a morph list that may help you.
http://hermansherps.co.uk/page3.html

 

[Lena]

That is very helpful. Thank you!

 

[Lena]

Upon reading that chart I am weighing my options.

Super Snow Albino X SHTCT = 'Snow Glow'? I've never seen one of these, but I'd be interested in trying it. Would the fact that she is het for tremper albino mean that half would be albinos, half would be 'snow glow's?

Also possibly considering..
Eclipse x SHTCT = Raptor
Albino/Patternless x SHTCT = Aptor
Mack Snow x SHTCT = Creamsicle

But I like the idea of a 'snow glow'.

 

[Sandra]

Super Snow Albino X SHTCT = 'Snow Glow'? I've never seen one of these, but I'd be interested in trying it. Would the fact that she is het for tremper albino mean that half would be albinos, half would be 'snow glow's?

You are right for the most part, but you don't seem to understand what a 'snowglow' is. An snowglow is a Mack snow sunglow/hybino (Super Hypo, optionaly Tangerine, albino). They look like pastelish colored sunglows (you can see some at http://www.thebestgeckos.com/gg67_004.htm). From that cross (knowing that your SHTCT is het Tremper and considering that the Super Snow Albino should be from the Tremper strain too) you would get:

50% Mack snow Tremper albinos (the ones with the more SHT influence would be considered 'snowglows')
50% non-albino Mack snows, het Tremper albino (the ones with the more SHT influence could be considered 'creamsicles', I guess).

To get snowglows you need one of the geckos to carry the Mack snow gene (it doesn't have to be a Super snow necessarily, it could be a Mack snow but then instead of getting 100% Macks you would get 50%); and both of them to carry the Tremper albino gene. The more they (either of them) have SHT influence, the better chances you'll have to hatch snowglows.

Eclipse x SHTCT = Raptor

Eclipse x SHTCT het albino = 100% normals het eclipse and 50% possible het albino (probably with SHTCT influence from the SHTCT and aberrant pattern influence from the eclipse, since most of them are striped).

A RAPTOR is basically an albino eclipse, so you need both of them to carry the albino and eclipse gene.

Albino/Patternless x SHTCT = Aptor

You have to be careful with what you call "patternless". The patternless gene in APTORs and RAPTORs is not the same as the "Murphy patternless" that is the most common form of patternless (the one that was called leucistic before). The one in (R)APTORs is the patternless stripe, that are produced from stripe x reverse stripe crosses. All these traits along with the jungle are grouped in what is called 'aberrant patterns' and they seem to be caused by the same gene, but more research must be done on this issue. You usually get a variety of patterns from crossing aberrant geckos.

An albino patternless stripe is already an APTOR, so from Aptor x SHTCT het albino you would get 50% normals het albino and 50% albinos, probably with SHTCT and aberrant influence.

Mack Snow x SHTCT = Creamsicle

You would get 50% Mack snows and 50% normals, all of them 50% possible het albino and probably with SHTCT influence... But only those with the most tangerine color and hypo pattern should be called 'creamsicles'.

 

[Lena]

I see. That clears it all up, thank you.

So the wisest choice would be to breed her to another tang het tremper as.. 50% of their offspring would be tremper albino, correct?

What about if I had a male who was mack snow het tremper? 50% Macks/Tangs and 50% tremper albinos?

I think I'm getting the hang of this.

 

[mynewturtle]

Mack het tremper x tangerine het tremper =

25% Tangerine influnced tremper albinos

25% Mack snow tangerine influnced het tremper albino

25%Snow glow (mack snow sunglow)

25% Normals with tangerine influnce het tremper albino.


1 in 4 eggs would be a snowglow witch isn't that bad you should hatch 2 or 3 if you did that breeding and was succesful.

 

[Sandra]

Mack het tremper x tangerine het tremper =

25% Tangerine influnced tremper albinos

25% Mack snow tangerine influnced het tremper albino

25%Snow glow (mack snow sunglow)

25% Normals with tangerine influnce het tremper albino.


1 in 4 eggs would be a snowglow witch isn't that bad you should hatch 2 or 3 if you did that breeding and was succesful.

The results you gave would be true if the Mack was a homozygous Tremper albino... Not just het Tremper.

From Mack het Tremper x SHTCT het Tremper you would get

37.5% Normals 66% possible het Tremper
37.5% Mack Snows 66% possible het Tremper
12.5% Tremper albinos
12.5% Mack snows Tremper albinos

It's similar, but not the same, as not all the non-albino geckos will be het Tremper and you get a lesser chance to get albinos.

As you know, all of them could be influenced by the SHTCT blood of your female. Some normals could be considered SHTCT, the Mack snows Creamsicles, the Tremper albino hybinos/sunglows and the Mack snow Tremper albinos snowglows.

I recommend you to look a bit into all these morphs, if that's the way you want to go ( http://www.leopardgeckowiki.com is a good place to start). I'd also take my time to read carefully paulh's post. If you fully understand what he says, with a little bit of research, answering all these questions is very easy I don't mind telling you the answer of all the crosses you think of, but you seem to want to learn.

So the wisest choice would be to breed her to another tang het tremper as.. 50% of their offspring would be tremper albino, correct?

Not necessarily the wisest choice... That depends on what you want to produce. Anyway, from this cross you would get 25% albinos, 50% het albino and 25% normals (in other words, 75% normals that have a 66% chance to be het albino). Again, being both parents tangerines the offspring probably would be too.

If you like the snowglow route... My suggestion would be to buy a male snowglow to cross with the SHTCT. You would get 25% normals het albino, 25% Macks het albino, 25% albinos and 25% Mack snow albino, and since both parents would have hypo and tangerine influence, you should get very nice offspring from these (tangs, hybinos, cleamsicles and snowglows). Most Macks haven't been bred for intensifying color, and it isn't easy to bring tangerine into the Macks, so if you start with a snowglow you improve your chances of getting nice hatchlings.

 

[Lena]

So basically it would be like breeding for the SHTCT trait with a 25% that the offspring will be tremper albino.

I think I like that idea best.

Now all I have to do is find a male around 4-8 months that is a nice SHTCT and het for tremper albino.

Thank you very much for all your help!

 

[mynewturtle]

Oops made a mistake shouldn't have awnserd at 7am lol. Sandra is right though, now that i am awake and can think properly.
I would just get two mack snow trempers and produce your own mack super snow trempers.