"Otherwise I'll be releasing them into the wild" - New owner, general questions, and

[Wild West Reptile]

All is forgiven. (Group hug) ))

 

[M_surinamensis]

The MAJORITY of people on this site will agree with me in that an overhead light is not needed and may...MAY...cause the geckos to hide or god forbid, stress.

I wish I was better with metaphor. It always seems like such a useful tool for TV mathematicians and medical doctors. "Imagine this thing that is easily described is like this difficult concept I am trying to explain. And now you understand advanced zoological behavior models!"

Lighting is one factor among many that can alter the behaviors of an animal. It's sort of a secondary one though, one factor combined with others in a way that forms an aggregate whole, with each aspect interacting with the others to modify, mitigate or influence the result. At least for the purposes of pet care discussions, there are extremes which could be manipulated as variables to provoke something against a control but pitch darkness or more intense than the sun or really abnormal photoperiods are a different kind of discussion.

Manipulation of lighting can just as easily be beneficial as detrimental, it really all comes down to exactly what is being done and what other conditions exist. Intense lighting combined with no hiding spots for the fulfillment of certain fossorial instincts would produce negative conditions. That same lighting applied to an enclosure that's full of tunnels, caves and ground cover can result in the display of crepuscular behavioral and patterns of activity that are identical to those observed in the wild, a positive condition. Uncontrolled lighting, erratic photoperiods of highly variable duration and intensity is potentially going to negatively impact health and behavior; an unlit enclosure is one where there's a loss of control over that aspect, it's inherently something the owner is not consciously regulating and consequentially can go either way.

The problem is not that you suggested a UTH as being an easy and reliable source of heating. The problem is not even that you suggested it over the use of lights. The problem is that you made statements that called lighting bad, without explaining when or how or why that can be the case. Importantly, it also meant that you didn't explain when or how or why lights could be safe and beneficial. You made this absolute statement, "Forget about the lights, they stress out leopard geckos." and as an absolute it is a statement that is factually incorrect. Like so very many things, it needs a caveat, a modifier... if used incorrectly, lights can cause stress.

Furthermore, by phrasing it as an absolute, not only are you incorrect but you're creating a false if-then scenario that could be viewed as an attack on the practices of other people. "Lights cause stress." would mean that if a keeper uses lights, then that keeper is stressing their gecko. It's an accusation of sorts, calling people out as causing harm to their pets through dangerous and irresponsible practices. There's a time and a place for that kind of thinking, but it only works if it stems from a scenario where the initial statement is true. In this case, it is not true; so it's an accusation based on a faulty premise and those people to whom it is applied are pretty justified in being angry.

To use a substitute as an illustration, some people who are negligent have brown hair. If I were to say, "People with brown hair are negligent" then everyone with brown hair would be pretty righteously irritated. Some use of lighting can be harmful, not everyone who uses lights is causing harm.

As a bit of an aside, the majority may or may not espouse a similar position. Doesn't really matter though, an educated minority has greater credibility than a naive majority every time.

It's too bad that we have to be so careful about our opinions on this wonderful site, for fear that we will get persecuted or called ignorant or worse, by other members who don't agree with us.

I don't think that's true.

There's a very important distinction between stating an opinion and stating a fact. I've rarely seen anyone attacked over an opinion,* but I have seen people who are called out over misinformation. You didn't phrase anything as an opinion. You phrased it as a fact. That statement happened to be wrong.

Maybe what you said wasn't what you meant... but all anyone has to go on here are the words you chose. If you mistakenly used the wrong words, that's on you, not on the reader; be more accurate in the future.

I thought this site was meant to help other people when they reach out for it...not for someone like yourself to pounce on one single comment in a paragraph of helpful knowledge.

I don't think being wrong is mitigated by also sometimes being right. Socially, maybe people are willing to overlook it as human fallibility but it doesn't validate the incorrect statements. One wrong statement, no matter where it is, deserves one correction.

Veering off topic for a moment, but it irritates the hell out of me when someone other than a website owner or moderator tells me what a website "is for." Worse when they try to tell me that it is not for whatever I am doing there. You're just another member of the same community, with no authority to dictate how any other members choose to spend their time. You do not get to mandate how or why anyone else uses this website, that is reserved for Kelli and the staff members she appoints. When one of them tells me I'm obligated to spend my time using the site for a specific purpose, then and only then will I reconsider my continued participation as needing to incorporate that purpose. When another registered member starts throwing around orders... well, it doesn't leave me predisposed to obeying them. Mostly the exact opposite.

There's an infinite number of ways to properly care for a leopard gecko.

No. There are limits. Expansive is not infinite.



*except in rare cases where one party expresses an opinion which is grossly atypical and violates the consensus opinion on an ethical topic.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Who was talking to you? Lol! Just kidding Seamus. No, but really....I already stated that I was only trying to give a quick and easy setup. Im sorry if I gave misinformation that lighting was undesirable. From my experience it hasn't been very beneficial. But that's MY experience. If you like it, and use it, then good for you. I wasn't trying to give "false information"...was just trying to help. Ill be more careful as to state "opinions" in the future on this site. Thanks for your two cents..,.and then some! Can we move on now? Jeesh!

 

[acharpenter]

I was searching for a general/combined FAQ on this site with no luck, so admittedly if I missed "the big one", please point me in that direction.

I think this might be what you were looking for??

http://geckoforums.net/articles.php?c=115

 

[lillith]

To use a substitute as an illustration, some people who are negligent have brown hair. If I were to say, "People with brown hair are negligent" then everyone with brown hair would be pretty righteously irritated.

THAT DOES IT! Seamus, I just happen to be a brunette! I know you knew that before you posted! what, you want me to dye it Burgundy, or should I BLEACH it for you!!?

(couldn't resist)

Okay, all's well that ends well? I hope?

 

[TokayKeeper]

THAT DOES IT! Seamus, I just happen to be a brunette! I know you knew that before you posted! what, you want me to dye it Burgundy, or should I BLEACH it for you!!?

(couldn't resist)

Okay, all's well that ends well? I hope?

Julianne Moore, Maria Cross, Laura Prepon, or Nicole Kidman red maybe? :smitten:

2.5geckos, welcome to our dysfunctional community. :main_laugh:

 

[artes]

Blondes are superior. True story.

Grats on your new geckos 2.5, they look lovely! I hope you enjoy them, and welcome to the community.

 

[Franklinj480]

eh... I wouldn't say they're superior... I've got a weakness for natural brunettes with long hair

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Julianne Moore, Maria Cross, Laura Prepon, or Nicole Kidman red maybe?

Mean Old Gecko Lady red???

 

[cvalkan4]

I think one reason lighting is a sensitive subject, is that many other types of pet lizards require or benefit from basking lights, while most leo owners would agree that leos are not natural baskers.
I have heard vets (and of course pet stores) tell leo owners that they need basking lights, erroneously extrapolating from their knowledge about other lizards. So we leo owners develop a defensive reflex when we are told that we don't have enough lights on our tank.