Our first Leo

[paulnattress]

Hi,

My wife and I have just got our first Leo and we wanted to show her off to you guys! We've just joined this forum as you guys all seem really nice and know how to look after Leos well.

Our Leo is called Shazzrah (if anyone plays World of Warcraft, you'll recognise the name!) and she's 7 months old. We bought her from a reputable specialist reptile shop in Worcester (UK) where we live (Worcester Reptiles).

We house her in a 4 foot vivarium using beech chippings as substrate (you'll see it in the pictures I'll post at the end of this post). We use a heat mat for heating but I'm going to get a heat lamp today as she's spending a lot of time in her hut which sits on the mat. We think it's because the ambient temperature in the vivarium is a little low away from the heat mat.

We like to give animals plenty of space to live in (hence the 4 foot vivarium) and we've tried to go for a natural feel to the environment. Even if our Leo doesn't appreciate the environment we'd prefer it to be natural anyway. Plus it looks much nicer.

We're feeding her around 6 live crickets per day (the store were feeding her around this amount too so we didn't want to change it until she's fully grown). We feed the crickets daily on brussel sprout leaves so that they're nice and full of nutrients and coat them in (um, I forgot what it's called but it's the nutrient powder that you're meant to spinkle on crickets). Occassionally she'll get a waxworm as a treat - we want to keep this to no more than once a week for her.

I'll let you know the temperatures of the vivarium once we get the heat lamp in and once I work the temps out in farenheit too.

The first day we got her she hid in her hut for 10 minutes and then she went out and explored every last inch of her new home. She started climbing the plants (you can see her peeking above one in the photo below) and tried to climb up the walls! The little mischief-maker thought she could climb walls! We're going to secure the plants on the walls to make sure they don't fall down when she's clilmbing.

Ok, enough talking, here's the pics:

 

[leopardgecko95]

Everything looks good and she looks pretty healthy, but get her off of whatever that substrate is. Paper towel, repti-carpet, and slate would be the best choices. Basically no loose substrate.

 

[LadyGecko]

Hi Paul and and Welcome to the forum


Shazzrah is lovely and so are your pics

I can understand your preference for a natural looking environment for your new Leo but the use of wood chips as a substrate may cause problems with Leos

Accidental ingestion of the smaller pieces may cause an intestinal blockage over time and the wood chips can harbor bacteria from fecal matter that might be missed when going through the chips to remove their feces

A safer but yet still pleasing to the eyes alternative would be either tiles or slate that can be cleaned easily and poses less of a risk to your Leos health
Many people here use paper towels (kitchen towels) for an easily removed substrate that leaves an open access to the bare bottom of the tank for easy wipe down quick cleaning

Heat lamps are not really necessary for these lizards and the reason that your Leo may be spending a lot of time in her hide is that she is not yet comfortable with her new environment rather than her not being warm enough
especially if this is the only place that she has to hide

A digital thermometer with a probe on the end or a temperature gun will give you an accurate reading of the temperature of the area over your under tank heat mat (uth) so that you can determine as to whether it is warm enough for her or not
They need belly heat more than overhead heat to properly digest their food

A bright white light may also keep your Leo inside her hide during the day since they are nocturnal animals
I find that in the absence of any over head lighting that mine tend to often sleep on the top of their hides or on the floor out in the open during the day
Light from a window or a lamp in a darker room will give her enough light for a photo period and they actually can sense day/night cycle even when kept in containers kept on shelves that allow very little light into them such as in a rack system

Leos do very well with ambient room temps in the majority of their enclosure providing that your house is not unusually cool and really only need the temps of 88 to 90 on the area directly over the uth

It is very natural for her to be spending a lot of time in her hide(especially during the day) as she adapts to her new home and she will venture out and stay out longer as she feels more secure in her new home
Leos don't much care for extreme changes and it is not unusual for them to hide and refuse to eat for a week or so after being brought to their new home so it is a good sign that she is eating for you right off

You can also offer her super worms/meal worms/silk worms/roaches/locusts to give her variety in her diet
I personally do not know the nutritional content of Brussel sprouts (I love them-lol) for the use of a gut load for your insect feeders but there are recipes using both grain and plant proteins among other ingredients as well as some commercial gut loads that might be a better alternative to the sprouts
I think that this excerpt from Cricketfood.com lists a fairly complete list of ingredients in a gut load for your feeder insects


"Gut loading is a term used to describe the process of feeding good nutritional foods to your insects prior to feeding them to your reptiles. Our Premium Blend Cricket Gut load and our Premium Blend Superworm & Mealworm Bedding recipes includes various grains, dried vegetables, dried fruits, nuts, seeds, acidophilus, bee pollen, and calcium carbonate totaling over 30 separate ingredients in all! Our Roach Diet includes various dried vegetables, dried fruits, nuts, seeds, fish meal, acidophilus, bee pollen, and calcium carbonate. These all-natural blends provide probiotics, complex carbohydrates, protein, folic acid, calcium, and other beneficial nutrients that are passed on to your pet. "

Pure calcium powder(no Vitamin D3) should be left in a small dish or bottle cap at all times for your Leo to lick at as she choses in addition to dusting the insects
A multivitamin supplement should also be used to dust the insects at either weekly or twice per month

Do you have a moist and a dry hide for her?
Most of us multiple moist and dry hides and with the space that you have in her enclosure you will have room for as many of them as you wish to add for her
A moist hide is a must in your Leos home to aid with their shed and they are very easy to make
Any plastic container can be used with a hole cut either in the top or the side for access and I use moistened coconut fiber for the medium on the bottom

I hope that this helps and i am sure that there will be many others here that will add whatever I may have forgotten

Good Luck with your new Leo


Sandy

 

[ReptileMan27]

Nice leo , I defently remove that substrate and go with something safe like paper towels,newspaper,tiles,or slate rock.

 

[BalloonzForU]

She's beautiful!

I agree why make it look natural if you don't make it more natural to her natural environment.

 

[paulnattress]

Hi,

Thanks for all your advice.

I seem to get conflicting advice about the beech chipping substrate. The reptile store recommended it and they are a specialist store with a good reputation. I've also found some care sheets online that recommend it. I've also found some that have said to avoid it, plus the advice here says avoid it. I've also seem the same conflicting advice about sand. There's lots of comments against it yet browsing through the pictures on this website shows a lot of photos of Leos on sand. I like the sound of using slate as I think it would great so I may check this out. But I don't want to start a substrate discussion, it looks like you have a lot of those discussions and people are getting sick of them.

I'm glad you've said that it's normal for geckos to be shy at first. She's been out and about the last few nights and tonight I placed my hand in and wiggled my fingers a little. She walked out (not too timidly) and licked my fingers! So she now knows I'm not a waxworm. Later on tonight she even walked over my hand so she's really comfortable around us already. She seems to respond to our voices and will come and stare at us if we speak to her. So, she seems to be doing great for her fourth day with us!

We do have a moss hut in the vivarium. It's a plastic tub with moist moss in it. How often do you guys usually moisten it and replace it? If it's moist in a warm area I imagine there's a risk of nasty stuff forming in there so I'm guessing the answer would be quite regularly?

We've got some waxworms as a treat but I want to restrict this to once a week (I must confess she's had two this week though).

I hadn't really intended to gutload the crickets, I just thought that half-starved crickets wouldn't be much of a meal for her and I didn't want them to die in their box so I thought some green leaves would be a good idea. I'll certainly look into properly gutloading them though. I may as well do it properly. We've noticed that the crickets we put in for her leap out of the bowl straight away but they tend to go to one of the corners (which are dark) and Shazzrah's hut is in one with a leafy covering at the back of it and they think it's safe back there. Muarh har har! We've seen her go into the other corner where the crickets also hide so she knows where they go. I'm also putting a few brussel sprout leaves in the vivarium so they don't nibble on Shaz if she misses one or two.

We've seen her yawn at us twice - I'm hoping this is normal (it did look cute). She's also winked at us but I'm going to keep an eye on that (no pun intended) to make it's not actually a problem with her eye. I'll take her to the vet if it looks likes she closing it a lot.

That's it for the update now. I'll take some pics of the vivarium and will post them. I've created another hide for her by using the small half-log that was covering the moss hut (the moss hut is now covered by leaves) so there's loads of spaces for her to hide and explore. She likes climbing so I may make some height by installing a corner shelf and putting the big log next to it for to climb up on.

I've just noticed that I can write for ages and ages about her! Does this mean I'm addicted already?

 

[Arconna]

I too hear a lot of conflicting reports on various substrates, but this is what I always go to when it comes to helping me decide.

Is it worth the risk? If you keep an animal on bark or sand or something else many say could cause impaction, are you willing to accept the risk that the animal may die because of it?
I had a bearded dragon die of impaction from sand and since then I have never kept any of my animals on sand. I'm not willing to risk it. I don't use loose substrate at all anymore. I've had plenty on loose substrate and never had a problem, but then again, do I want to have it happen at some point in the future to one of my animals? Nope. Paper towel may look tacky or cheap, but it's the easiest stuff to clean (you just throw it away), it's really cheap (25 cents a roll or something isn't it?), and they can't eat it (well, I imagine they could, but that's a lot of paper towel).

Now to happier stuff! Beautiful gecko! She looks like a little darling. I love leo faces . So cute! Just be careful, they are like a drug...addictive. I've got 10 now lol.

Some leo's get really good with people. My second leo (from Marcia of GGG) started off rather spastic, but now I can just let him wander around while I clena his cage. He doesn't bolt, never bites (except when I get in the way of him eating), and all in all is pretty docile. Others I have are docile, but sometimes get spooked and bolt. So, it varies animal to animal.
As for moss, I would mist every day depending entirely on how fast it evaporates. Don't make it too moist so it is really wet though, that can lead to nasty things growing in there. As for changing, I don't know if there is a set time on changing, but usually I just keep an eye on it and if it starts to smell weird or they've pooped in it too much, or it just doesn't have the green color and has turned brown, I replace it. You can also use paper towel in your moist hides if you'd like that for the cheapness of it.
There are usually cricket gutloading diets at your local pet store. You can just put it in a bowl and the crix will eat it. Use carrots, potatoes, apples, or oranges for water (plus they get nutrients from those too).
Also, don't leave uneaten crix in the cage. They will likely bite your leo even if you put food in there for them. It's better just to feet her and take anything she doesn't eat out after 20 minutes. If she's not a fast eater you can put a little bowl of mealies in the cage. Waxies are treats, supers can be given more regularly, but they are sort of a non-staple really. Some of my leo's will only take supers though and they do okay on it.

I think the winking is just something they do to keep the eye clean. IF she starts keeping her eye closed a lot, that is cause for concern.

Anywho lol. Yes, you are addicted!

 

[paulnattress]

Hi,

We've decided to replace the substrate. Like Arconna said, it's not worth the risk. We're going to put paper towels down but I want to put a few pieces of slate in too to make it more natural-looking. I also want to put a few clumps of large pebbles in (around 2" across) to make it look more interesting too. I'll start another thread about the slate as I've got a few questions about the type I should get, how it works with heating etc. (I don't want it to get too hot and burn little Shaz's toes).

I think I'd prefer to use wet paper towels instead of moss as it's not organic is is probably less prone to harbouring germs and bacteria. Plus it'll be much easier to replace.

We'd like to vary her diet between crickets and mealworms to give her some variety and offer waxworms as an occassional treat. We'll keep an eye out for any stray crickets although they're not too easy to catch (and hints on catching them?)

 

[BalloonzForU]

Cool, I love the slate look.

 

[Arconna]

Just a note on the paper towels verse moss. Moss holds moister better and longer. You won't have to replace the moss a lot if you use it. As for paper towel, you can't make it soaking wet, just moist, and you'll have to spray it more often because it will dry out faster.

When I used to feed crix I would coax the leftovers into a corner and use my fingers to go under them. They freak out and jump into your hand 7 out of 10 times, then you close your hand and take them out.

Anywho, you'll likely get a lot of responses on the slate. Several people here use it. Good luck!

 

[Scott&Nikki]

Hi,

We've decided to replace the substrate. Like Arconna said, it's not worth the risk. We're going to put paper towels down but I want to put a few pieces of slate in too to make it more natural-looking. I also want to put a few clumps of large pebbles in (around 2" across) to make it look more interesting too. I'll start another thread about the slate as I've got a few questions about the type I should get, how it works with heating etc. (I don't want it to get too hot and burn little Shaz's toes).

I think I'd prefer to use wet paper towels instead of moss as it's not organic is is probably less prone to harbouring germs and bacteria. Plus it'll be much easier to replace.

We'd like to vary her diet between crickets and mealworms to give her some variety and offer waxworms as an occassional treat. We'll keep an eye out for any stray crickets although they're not too easy to catch (and hints on catching them?)

I recently put in slate and I am very happy with it. I will look out for your post about it to answer any specific questions you may have. I use Terrarium Moss in my moist hide. I got an 8 quart bag for about $8 at Petco. In a month I have used maybe 1/25 of it. It does not stay damp for too long, but I imagine it would be longer than paper towel. Plus the fact, he uses the moss almost as a blanket or a bed inside the hide even when it dries up. About the cricket problem, I found a very good solution thanks to some people on this site. Pet stores have Cricket Keepers that work great. It is basically like a plastic tank with two black tubes that the crickets climb into. This makes it extremely easy to get into a bag to dust with calcium. You can take the black tubes out and trap the left-over crickets with those. If you need more help with that feel free to PM me.

 

[paulnattress]

Thanks for the advice

We have a cricket keeper so I'll give that a go or I may be brave and just grab them with my hand - I'll have to get used to them sooner or later!

 

[marula]

We've decided to replace the substrate. Like Arconna said, it's not worth the risk. We're going to put paper towels down but I want to put a few pieces of slate in too to make it more natural-looking

..if you like natural looking look at this tank

you have a really nice gecko and your avatar is really funny :main_laugh:

 

[paulnattress]

That's a nice looking vivarium! I hope to get ours looking near that in the future. My avatar is one of the first photos I took of our Leo - she's a cheeky little monkey!

Well, you'll be very pleased to know that we've replaced the substrate. We took out all of the chippings and placed a 3mm (around 1/4 inch I think) piece of MDF in there so the hat mat isn't directly in contact with the paper towels. We' now coated the floor with paper towels. I must say that it looks quite good. It's easier to see her now and I really think she likes it better. I've got some photos below but first I want to update you on how she's doing.

She's still eating well. We've had her a week and she had an appetite from the start. She responds well to my wife and I and will quite happily come to us. Today, my wife held her hands out for her and she walked right into her hands! She just sat there for a second, not nervous or skittish and then walked back into the vivarium. Today, after we changed her substrate she seemed to like walking around the vivarium much better. She wasn't bothered about sitting in a temporary carrier for 10 mins whilst we changed her vivarium. So thanks very much for recommending that we change the substrate. Both Shazzrah and my wife and I are much happier now!

So, on to the photos! I'll explain how the vivarium is set up.

On the right, we have the heat mat sitting at the back of the vivarium, covering almost half the width of it. On top of this is her warm hide. We've got some artificial plants covering the back which creates a nice covered exit to her home. She spends a lot of time at this side of her hide, watching out for any tasty crickets. The crickets seem to like this corner too and sometimes hop right in front of her mouth.

On the left, we have the tree stump/log thing. We've got some more artificial plants covering this. This is the cooler area. The plants and log provide some shade and darkness but we've got a smaller hide in there too. This corner is the one that the crickets love the most so she's learnt to wander around there looking for them if any get away from her. (We're feeding her one at a time and she grabs most of them as soon as we put them in there.)

In the middle you can see her water bowl - very shallow so it's safe for her. We also have a feeding bowl where we put the crickets but this was being washed when I took these photos. I was also changing her moist hut at the time so you can't see this. But, the moist hut sits under the leaves at the back in the middle of the vivarium. It's a plastic tub with a hole cut in one side and stuffed with damp paper towel (I want to buy some more moss so this is temporary.)

I was going to use slate but wasn't too keen on the slippery surface or using sand to fill in the gaps but the paper towels are looking ok for the moment. I may put some decorative stones in there to give it a more natural feel. Also, in the future I was thinking about putting some polystyrene climbing ledges on the back wall. I saw some pictures of vivariums on this site that had those and they looked great! I want to research it a bit more though just to make sure they're safe for our Leo.

Anyway, here's the pictures (I had to blur out the reflections which is why the background may look a little strange). By the way, it looks very bright in there but it's much darker really. I adjusted the brightness in Photoshop so you could see the photos better.

 

[BalloonzForU]

Looks GREAT!!

 

[Zbiz]

LOL Shazzrah! I know that name! I'm a WoW player myself, nice to see im not the only WoW/gecko lover out there! Grats on new addition! and i love the cage for it.

I use Polystyrene in my display tanks its amazing and very naturalistic... Ill post some pics for you and if you want ill tell you how i did it. It turned my 10 gallon tank into a leopard gecko paradise.

 

[paulnattress]

Hehe, we're thinking about calling her vivarium "The Molten Core" Glad that someone else knows where the name Shazzrah comes from! By the way, we're on the European "Hellscream" server. Someone in our guild has a bearded dragon called "Onyxia"

I'd also love to see pics of your vivarium.

 

[Zbiz]

LOL Onyxia, thats great! Maybe you should make the interior look like Molten Core! I will post pics of my vivarium as soon as i shoot new ones added a few things. The technique was very simple and you could do anything you like with it. BTW Your next leo should be Luci lol

PS. CANT WAIT TILL BC!!!