Persistent dehydration, cloudy eyes, and TWO abscesses? What the heck is going on?

[geckoguru929]

guru you sound like you know what you are talking about. i would love to hear why you think its dangerous to dust with repashy calcium plus daily?. im sure others would like to know aswell, alot of members use that product on this forum. i must admitt though when i switched for the repashy supplement i noticed a huge change in my geckos, for the good. I have heard though from someone that they think the protein level is supposedly to high for a daily dust. If im not mistaken the newer version even has a higher protein level?.

To the OP : good luck with your gecko, everything pulls through good:main_thumbsup:

Protein bulks up the gecko giving the appearance of a healthy gecko. Excess daily consumption of protein can cause a build up of toxic ketones, stresses the kidneys and leads to dehydration. Dehydration is a common problem in reptiles which can lead to renal dysfunction. Think of a body builder who suddenly drops dead after years of pumping himself with products.

Fat soluble vitamins are stored in the body. Cholecalciferol (D3) can be stored in the liver for approximately 20 days. So obviously if we continue to pile up excess on the liver, it will eventually become diseased as well as other organs. The amounts dusted on the insects is not enough for a sudden overdose unless they deliberately eat a huge amount. The danger of toxicity is over time, months or even years. Again, damage to internal organs.

The amounts per species have not been established. I think most people forget consider the amounts taken in by gutload. So you will end up with twice the amount unless you offer an empty insect. I hope this answer satisfies your curiosity.

 

[KDReptiles]

Geckoguru, thanks a ton for the info, I will remember next time (if there is a next time) that slow, steady growth is better than quick bulk-up when rehabilitating.

A sad end for Calcifer, the vet gave him diluted oral vitamin A and put him back on the antibiotics we were using before, and he seemed to be doing fine (at least, not any worse) until suddenly everything went downhill all at once. His whole neck started to swell and bruise profusely, as well as fluid build-up/tissue damage to the side of his head, which all happened overnight. I have surrendered him to the hospital, where the vet has looked at him and does not have a bright outlook for his future. He is likely to be euthanized.

 

[sausage]

oh poor baby :'(
So sorry for your loss.
You did a great job with him and should be proud in the fact that in the time he lived with you, you turned his life around making it amazing (you can tell that from the second picture you posted, he looks very happy indeed.)

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I am so very sorry to hear about your beloved Calcifer. Is ther any chance those 'abcesses' could have been cancerous lymph glands? If so, then there is not much that could have been done for him. I think that supplementation is only the tip of the iceberg in cases like this one. I get frustrated when so-called experts recommend a 'one-size-fits-all' supplementation regime. There is simply not enough REAL data on reptile nutrition and supplementation that is specie specific.

 

[KDReptiles]

Thanks for the support, guys. It helps a ton. I gave her the go-ahead, by her suggestion, to euthanize.

I had never thought of cancer as a possibility, but now that you mention it, it seems like a possible fit. I believe the vet has his body still, I can mention this to her and see if it strikes interest enough to perform a necropsy. It would be interesting to know for sure what happened.

 

[geckoguru929]

Thanks for the support, guys. It helps a ton. I gave her the go-ahead, by her suggestion, to euthanize.

I had never thought of cancer as a possibility, but now that you mention it, it seems like a possible fit. I believe the vet has his body still, I can mention this to her and see if it strikes interest enough to perform a necropsy. It would be interesting to know for sure what happened.

Damn. I was hoping she would pull thru. She had persistent dehydration so she might have had kidney issues. I still think she was suffering from Vitamin A deficiency, but it was too late. My guess would be they finished her kidneys off with all those antibiotics. The Vitamin A shot was the final straw. Kidney failure can cause sudden gular edema. Just a guess. A necropsy would be awesome.

 

[KDReptiles]

Damn. I was hoping she would pull thru. She had persistent dehydration so she might have had kidney issues. I still think she was suffering from Vitamin A deficiency, but it was too late. My guess would be they finished her kidneys off with all those antibiotics. The Vitamin A shot was the final straw. Kidney failure can cause sudden gular edema. Just a guess. A necropsy would be awesome.

They didn't give him a vitamin A shot, the vet didn't want to because it's too easy to OD, causing skin sloughing. She said she wouldn't be able to dilute the mixture enough to prevent skin issues. So she gave him some vit. A orally.

She didn't send him to the diagnostics lab for necropsy, so histopathology won't be done, but said she'd do the necropsy herself in the next few days.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

She had persistent dehydration so she might have had kidney issues.

Dehydration and insufficient supplementation can also lead to gout, which can present itself with hard swollen nodules in the joints. Not all of these issues are caused by insufficient supplemntation or environmental conditions... I think that sometimes animals are simply born with meatoblic problems. Hopefully, histopathy will give you (and all of us) some answers. Again, I'm sorry for your loss. Making the decision to euthanize is always difficult.

 

[KDReptiles]

Quick update: Seems we'll never know the answer to what was causing all this, but we know now that it was more than just an abscess on his head. The reply to my inquiry to the vet about his necropsy:

"Just a very large abcess on the side of the head where we knew it was (probably originated in the mouth as it was worse there). He also had some smaller abcesses in his liver, so we weren’t probably going to make him better no matter what we did, but no reason (at least not obvious) for him to keep getting the abcesses…"

About his kidneys:
"Amazingly, they looked ok, but just because they looked ok to the naked eye, doesn’t mean that they were functioning correctly. That’s something we will never know…"

I wish either of us had had the funds to get the histopathology done, but as I donated him to the hospital it wouldn't have been my decision.

 

[Ozy]

I would like to recommend repashy superfoods calcium plus for leopard geckos. Just gutload the insects, then dust them with it at every feeding and PRESTO! No need for a calcium dish in the enclosure or any other supplements. I use it for my leo and he has been doing AMAZING on it. Hope your baby gets better!

EDIT: OMG! I am SOOO sorry! I posted this before I saw that he had been euthanized! I am SOOO sorry! Sending hugs and happy thoughts your way!!!