Puchased my first Leo, am I doing this right?

[LearninLizzard]

I purchased my first Leo on Monday after months of reading up on how to do it. I have kept salt water aquariums for the last 8 years and wanted a change so out went the fish and in came my little four legged friend. I purchased the Exo Terra medium terrarium kit for the cage. I have a UTH for heat and have two Exo Terra 2.0 CFL bulbs for the included light fixture (chose these bulbs just in case I decide to add any live plants). I have provide a humid and dry hide, water and food dish, and a calcium dish. below are some pics (I hope, im new to this site not sure how the pic posting works yet)

Front of Cage
http://geckoforums.net/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6625

Side of cage
http://geckoforums.net/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6626

Humid Hide
http://geckoforums.net/album.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6633

Dry Hide
http://geckoforums.net/album.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6627

Temperature prob. Have laid down on sand since taking pic. Is this the proper location for the prob to ensure the proper floor temp? Current temp is showing 91.2, still working the rheostat to get it to 90.

http://geckoforums.net/album.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6635

Food, water, and calcium dishes
http://geckoforums.net/album.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6628

Here is the little guy/girl. Not sure if it is male or female. I cannot see any bulges at the tail base or a V shape of pores. Is this little critter still to young to sex or do I have a female. I include a regular sized plastic fork in one of the pics for size comparison. Also, not sure what type of Leo this is, I'm thinking of the normal type or morph? Am I correct?

http://geckoforums.net/album.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6631
http://geckoforums.net/album.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6632
http://geckoforums.net/album.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6629

I think I have all major points in keeping a Leo covered, if not, please let me know. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

 

[LearninLizzard]

pics didn't load, whats the trick?

 

[im faster]

U have http:// twice edit the post delete one on each and unethical will work..


Loose the sand and you'll be fine replace with slate or tilea from homedepot

 

[LearninLizzard]

U have http:// twice edit the post delete one on each and unethical will work..

Removed the extra http:// but still no pics. Any other suggestions?

 

[im faster]

Upload to Photobucket... Maybe you can't post embeded images from your albums...

But really you need to take out that sand.

 

[panthergecko]

i agree sand wise, if you don't want to get rid of the sand
atleast lose most of it

 

[notacoshells]

looks like a mac snow

 

[Reptis]

He is so cute! I agree with everybody else, lose the sand. It can get clogged up in there digestive tract and kill them. Where did u buy him from? he should be around 3 months old, way to young to sex them. What r u feeding him?? (Gosh I am asking a lot of questions.)

 

[LearninLizzard]

Purchased at Petsmart.
Feeding only Meal worms. (Don't want to deal with crickets. plus I figured less likely to eat sand if his/her food is not running loose in the cage)

Its been a week now and the little critter is doing good. He/she was eating out of our hand on day 2. Started with 2 worms (that all it would eat). Now we're up to six worms. (I put six in the dish with the intentions of seeing how long it would take for them to be consumed). How many worms should it be eating daily. I want to be sure to feed it enough but I don't want to over feed either.

My plan is/was to provide a dish full of worms for it to snack on but if its going to eat the whole bowel in one feeding then that might not be such a good idea. I don't want a Leo that look like and inflated puffer fish.

Any suggestions on feeding are welcome.

 

[LearninLizzard]

Reposted pics. Trying to get the hang of posting pics.

Think I got it now. I think my original uploaded images were too big to be included in the original post. I have to be sure to reduce the size of the pics before I up load them.

 

[Franklinj480]

I understand that sand can be visually pleasing with some species, but if you're going for good husbandry and natural habitat accuracy just about everyone besides a few adamant few will suggest you get rid of it. I had to learn the hard way years ago when one of my beardies impacted himself and didn't make it. I had a very minuscule amount of sand filling in cracks between tile fragments, after about 2 weeks I noticed my leo was passing the sand in his waste. They don't just ingest a little bit when they eat, heck I was using a feeding dish. They just seem to go out of their way to eat it.

What brand of sand are you using? Is it the calcium "safe" stuff? That stuff is the worst sand you could be using. Playground play sand is a lesser evil.

Finally if you're looking for a visually appealing substrate that is accurate for a natural habitat, 100% safe, easy to clean, conducts heat well, etc (the list goes on) You should look into tiles. I use ceramic in mine and would suggest it to any owner.

Just had to post this other members have already made the suggestion, I made sand choice when I first started, it didn't last very long at all.

 

[LearninLizzard]

Thanks for the input. I will replace the sand (hopefully before I have any problems as a result of it). Just need approval from CINC house (the wife). We just paid out the but for what we got and of course the pet store wont tell you not use their product and send you to the local hardware store. Also I haven't seen any tile that looks right. I've been looking every time I go to home depot. Nothing is catching my eye at the moment. I do have a question...how is it that they survive in the wild with sand all around them. i know the live rocky regions of Afghanistan/Pakistan but even those areas have sand, probably larger gain then what pets stores sell (mine is almost like powder, and not the calcium sand). Just wondering. What is it about the sand that makes the Leos want to eat it. This date I have not seen any sand in the waste. Again I'm new to Leos just asking so please no harassment from the sand police. So far everyone has been polite. I know from my salt water fish forums that once the "stupid " question is asked its "open Season", well it seems that way anyways. Once again thanks to all for the suggestions....keep 'em coming.

Oh! almost forgot...any suggestions on how to feed this little guy or girl. Do I just give a few worms a day or load up the bowl and let it snack at will. Like I said earlier, I don want a skinny lizard but on the other hand I don't want a fat lazy one either.

 

[Franklinj480]

Its true, they did evolve and thrive in the natural environment for thousands of years before people started keeping them in the last century - not too too much is known about their life in the wild, but its predominantly rocky and grassland terrain from what I've seen on these forums and read. It is suspected that leo's in the wild will eat loose dirt and clay to take in calcium + other minerals and vitamins, after all limestone is mostly calcium.

They're pretty hardy lizards, I've heard amazing survival stories of leo's lost and found 6 months later (having thrived through a snowy winter outside) but my philosophy as a pet owner is to provide ideal safe and sterile conditions for my animals. Loose substrates pose a risk, but its all up to the owner in the end.

I've got 1'' deep ceramic dishes that I put 20 mealworms in each night, empty the uneaten ones in the morning. My gex eat as much as they want and aren't too fat or lazy by any means. They're very sensible reptiles, never overeating on the mealworms.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

How leopard geckos live in the wild vs how they live in captivity are two completely matters. The home range each gecko covers in a day is much more than they are provided in captivity. They can freely move from one terrain to another as they desire. They can hide in cool damp debris if they choose, or sprawl out on a rock in the open. They eat what they can find. We provide what we can for them to be healthy and happy in captivity. We are responsible for all their care and safety. Experienced gecko keepers can do many things in creating beautiful naturalistic terrariums that beginners cannot safely do, simply because they know their animals very well and would immediately spot and correct any potential danger sign.

Things that can possibly happen from sand substrate: Scenario #1 Help- my gecko is eating great but not pooping. His belly is fat. Should I be concerned? Scenario #2 Help- my gecko isn't active and hasn't eaten in 3 days. When he does eat, it's just a few worms. He was eating 10 mealworms a day until about a week ago. His tail is getting thin. What should I do to get him to eat? Scenario #3 I've never seen my gecko eat any sand so he could not be impacted.........

Visual appeal is nothing compared to the well being of your gecko. Juveniles should not be kept on sand.

 

[LeoMerlin]

Yep I've read so many places that sand = bad for geckos or other types of reptiles. It makes me sad every time I go into a pet store and see the reptiles that should not be on sand are on sand. I think I finally did see one store online from a video that looked like it was using reptile carpet. I was like "WOOT! Finally!" I know some people don't have too many problems if any with sand but I wouldn't want to risk it myself.

 

[im faster]

again.. reptile carpet can be just as bad as sand..

sand has a high risk of impaction..

reptile carpet
risks loosing toes and teeth from them getting stuck in it.
and its is COMPLETELY unsanitary and can never be properly cleaned.

both are horrible ideas.

 

[LeoMerlin]

My guy has only gotten "stuck" a couple of times if the crickets get loose from the tongs. He doesn't get stuck now though, but as I said, I am going to try to get tiles soon, depending on how much they cost for the tank. May temporarily put him back on paper towels. Cleaning hasn't been too much of an issue with the carpets either for me. A lot of people seem to be able to use reptile carpet just fine, and it is better than sand. It all depends on the owner of what they want to use. All we can do is offer advice from personal experience, which is what this forum is about.

 

[LearninLizzard]

Thanks for all the good information. I appreciate it. My search for tile continues. Will post some pics once my transition is complete.

One question remains, Would it be ok to leave a layer of sand under the tile if it is not (or very little of it) is exposed? I'm thinking it would help the tile not move around and help distribute the heat more evenly.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Thanks for all the good information. I appreciate it. My search for tile continues. Will post some pics once my transition is complete.

One question remains, Would it be ok to leave a layer of sand under the tile if it is not (or very little of it) is exposed? I'm thinking it would help the tile not move around and help distribute the heat more evenly.

Yes, that's what I do. If you use slate, they are uneven thickness usually and you need a little sand to level the slate. Just make sure you get it cut to the exact size of your tank. Measure the inside's 3 times before you go down. I have a 36 x 18 for one of my tanks and on the left side it was 17 5/8 and on the right it was 17 7/8, so measure carefully. And yes, it does help conduct the heat.

 

[M_surinamensis]

Experienced gecko keepers can do many things in creating beautiful naturalistic terrariums that beginners cannot safely do, simply because they know their animals very well and would immediately spot and correct any potential danger sign.

Thank you for that, Laney.

As you say, experience with the animals can open up options that would represent disproportionate risks if someone were not experienced. The subtle cues and signs in the animal's behavior, the nuanced difference in appetite and fecal appearance; these kinds of things can best be judged by someone who has an intrinsic awareness of what is normal and healthy, so that changes can be easily spotted and analyzed.

One of the other, often overlooked, factors is the detailed selection of the particulate substrate. Grade (and grade mix), shape, mineral and organic composition, moisture content, packing density, preparation steps which are taken prior to introducing the animal- these choices can make a tremendous difference between experiencing success and experiencing failure.

There are some potential benefits to soil and sand mixes as a substrate for a leopard gecko, there are behaviors that won't manifest without the right kind of ground cover, there are benefits to the pressure put on the feet and legs, it facilitates manipulation of some other environmental factors, it allows for things like bio-active enclosures and the use of live plants. All that said though, the benefits are only worth it if calculated steps have been taken to minimize the risks. It's really something that should only be done by experienced, knowledgeable individuals, those who intrinsically understand behavior for the species in question, those who are able to make educated choices about all those factors in the above paragraph and foresee the pitfalls of poor choices.

Even with all that, many experienced, knowledgeable, intelligent keepers will decide the benefits aren't worth the risks, or the results aren't worth the extra effort and attention, and won't use it anyway.

The OP's history with aquariums likely gives them a significant advantage of translatable knowledge, should they decide to revisit the topic once they feel comfortable with gecko behavior. Substrate choices are well analyzed and well understood by aquarium owners, it is... more important... in many fish tanks, so it comes up as a subject earlier and more frequently. The underlying awareness of grade, shape, mixture and everything else I mentioned is helpful.

All we can do is offer advice from personal experience, which is what this forum is about.

Here's the thing about experience; it's both quantitative and qualitative. It accumulates over time and some of it is worth more. It is important to recognize that not all experience is equal, and that the experiences of one person can be worth more, as an education, than the experiences of another.

Even then, experience is filtered through the comprehension of the individual who is having it, their knowledge (or related experiences) and their inherent intellect can dramatically increase or decrease the value of the understanding they take away from the experiences they have had.