R.A.P.T.O.R x R.A.P.T.O.R = Hatchling Two Solid Black Eyes ?? :O :O

[MrFrog]

Hello,


My new gecko, that has just born really suprised me.

From pair: R.A.P.T.O.R + R.A.P.T.O.R has born a gecko like this :

!! On there photos we can see very special colours of body and eyes Black Eyes !!

Personally I am thinking about two options for an explanation of that situation:

a) Ron Tremper did not tell me that these Raptors are het. on Eclipse.

b) Maybe it is a new kind of geckos from Trempers breeding line.

I would like to answer people that can help me in identyfication of that animal.

Regards
Jakub

 

[elphani]

As far as I know is eclipse they same gene like ruby eyes. They are just black because of the lack of Albinisme.

I assume you incubated it low so the ruby eyes are of a very dark red!

BTW very cute hatchling

 

[dprince]

It looks like an eclipse to me. Weird........... but cool looking!!

 

[elphani]

eclipse? I don't have experience with Eclipse - I just thought it is a very low incubatet RAPTOR... but when I look eclipse hatchling-pics I must say you may be right .

Maybe it helps to see the parents...

Maybe this little one walked a step back in the creation of Albinos

I don't have a good explanation though.
And bad ones are: mix up the eggs, one RAPTOR is an Eclipse, spontanous mutation of a Albino-Gen back to a ''normal''...

 

[StinaKSU]

Interesting...is there any possibility at all that the female could have bred at some point with a different male?...

 

[CarrotTail]

What do you think about genetic complementation?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I assume you incubated it low so the ruby eyes are of a very dark red!

If you incubated this RAPTOR at a very low temperature the eyes will appear to be black, but I can guarantee they are a very, very dark garnet red color. Many of my female RAPTORs have the appearance of black eyes.

 

[Lottiz]

I agree with Marica. I got a female as I thought was black eyed, but when she grow up a bite I saw they were dark red.

hatchling:

To day;

 

[okapi]

a) Ron Tremper did not tell me that these Raptors are het. on Eclipse.

b) Maybe it is a new kind of geckos from Trempers breeding line.

Raptors can never be het eclipse, because they are eclipse. And its nothing new, there have been a few people post on here after emailing RT asking why they hatched out dark eyed raptors from red eyed parents.

The red eye is caused by the eclipse gene expressed along with the albino gene. The eclipse gene makes solid black eyes. The albino gene blocks black pigment. So the eyes are solid red because the solid color in the eyes is turned off by the albino gene.

Your raptor is a cherry eyed raptor. If a raptor is not incubated at high enough temperatures then the "chocolate" colors will cause the brightness of the other traits to be less than that of a high incubation temperature raptors. If u use a penlight, you can see that the eyes are really dark dark red, like a cherry. Email RT about it, he coined the term cherry eyed raptor.

 

[elphani]

OMG, Lottiz that second pic is soooo sweet!!!

Cherry eyed raptor ist a really good name! Now I can imagine that colour!

 

[yupik]

I asked MrFrog about incubation temperature and he said that this RAPTOR was incubated at 26,5*C.

 

[ByRandom]

Which is equal to just about 79.7*F. That is quite low on the incubation scale.

 

[dprince]

Aha, makes sense now. That is just *crazy* how black those eyes look.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Yes I agree, low incubation temperatures are the culprit.

 

[Lottiz]

OMG, Lottiz that second pic is soooo sweet!!!

Cherry eyed raptor ist a really good name! Now I can imagine that colour!

well, hehe... Cherry eye is her name, not the morph

 

[MrFrog]

Hello,

I had read all your opinions. i will try to answer the questions. That gecko was incubated in 26,5 C degrees tempreture. The egg was incubated for 73 days.

Female had not had contact with any differend male. About that the temperature is responsible for intensivity of eyes, that is really interesting.

Getting back to that young gecko: I can't see any red red colour even after long observation.

These are the photos of parents :

Male ( 1 Solid red eyes and 1 eyes 80% red )

Female ( Two Solid Red Eyes )

Both male and felame was brought from Ron Tremper.

I am waiting for next opinions.

Best Regards
Jakub

 

[Lottiz]

Give it some time. If your albino+albino pairing did give a non albino off spring, eclipse is possible, But...I think the eyes are very deep red any way. You just can't see it yet. And the body give me albino-feelings too. Not a black spot anywhere.

/Lottiz

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The eclipse eye (solid black) is melanin, or pigment. Albinos do not have any melanin in their skin or eyes.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

It is definately a Raptor, not an Eclipse. Albino X Albino gives only Albino.

As far as it looking black, it is just that the eyes (and skin)of Trempers from lower temps are darker. At the incubation temps you say you have incubated at, that is perfectly normal for the eyes to look almost black. That is also why the tail has those markings. Had it been non-albino they would have been black spots instead.

The difference between an Eclipse and a dark eyed Raptor would be, the Albino`s eye should look more translucent.

 

[okapi]

It is definately a Raptor, not an Eclipse. Albino X Albino gives only Albino.

I know what your saying and I agree, plus I dont want to contridict you but raptors are homozygous eclipse Im afraid that MrFrog might get confused about the difference between the term "eclipse" and "raptor" without further explaination:

What GroovyGeckos means is albino eclipse's are called raptor, non-albino eclipse's are called eclipse.

PS- use a pen light and you can see the dark red eye color. Or use a camera flash.