Rainwater morph [breeding]

[perfectsoldier23]

Hey everyone!
I'm very new here and very new to breeding leopard geckos so I apologize beforehand if my questions are a little silly or mediocre.
I've owned 5 leopard geckos throughout the past couple years just as pets. I'm very comfortable in the housing and general husbandry of Leos. I got out of the Leo phase for a while to attend college and now that I'm working and have some time on my hands, I'm looking at starting a very small scale breeding operation. I have a general understanding of genetics but [as I'm sure everyone here knows] there is an INSANE amount of genetics packed into breeding Leos - so I am pretty lost! This small scale breeding may open doors for me pursuing school related to genetics so I want to know EVERYTHING - don't hold back!

I'm really interested in the raining red stripe projects. Something ambitious for my first project, I know...
But, would my Rainwater Albino work for a start up male for that project? I'm not sure what constitutes a raining red stripe, or red stripe in general. What genetics should I look for in a female?
I'd like to understand a little more about my Rainwater boy, too. Albino is a dominate gene because he's shows it? And he is het for Rainwater? So, whatever I find in a female, she absolutely has to be a rainwater strain, correct? Is there a reason why some breeders do not specify whether they are Temper, Rainwater or Bell? Is this a gene that can eventually be bred out of them? [Patternless?]

"Archer"


I may be COMPLETELY off base here, so please correct me! ;]
Thanks in advance!

 

[acpart]

Welcome to GF. I will try to address your questions.

Research about genetics and breeding:
Leopard Gecko Wiki --read the morph articles
Reptile Calculator --get the phone app too
Guide to Breeding Leopard Geckos on a Small Scale | Gecko Time
Fun with Hets: Leopard Geckos Teach Genetics 101 | Gecko Time

Rainwater basic genetics:
Rainwater albino is a recessive trait. That means that if your gecko looks albino, it has 2 copies of the gene. If it had only 1 copy, it would not look albino but would be able to pass it on to offspring. If you want to produce more rainwater albinos, you have to get a female that is either a rainwater, or "het" for rainwater (has 1 copy of the gene). THere is no way to know that she is het unless you know that one parent was a rainwater or that a trusworthy breeder told you. If a breeder doesn't spontaneously tell you what albino strain their gecko is, you should ask. If they don't know, don't buy an albino from them.

Raining Red Stripes: three traits combine to produce them:
rainwater albino: as mentioned above, recessive

striped: instead of bands like your gecko has, the striped geckos have a colored pattern that runs head to tail. Both the body bands and the tail bands are broken this way. This is a line bred (polygenetic) trait, meaning that the best way to get it is to make sure at least one of your breeding group is striped and to hold back and breed the best striped babies to further improve the line. It's likely that if you get a striped female, some of the babies will be aberrant (broken tail or body bands but not both), jungle ("camouflage" patches that orient vertically but don't really look like stripes) or striped.

Red: tangerine coloring. Also line bred (see above). To try to produce raining redstripes using your male, you would probably need a raining redstripe female and then see if you get any babies that inherit primarily her traits. A more DIY method would be to get a rainwater (or het) female that is either striped or tang, produce nice looking babies and then breed them to a gecko that has the trait your female didn't display.

Have fun.

Aliza

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I remembered Creative Gecko posting some outstanding picrtures of his red stripes. I love them too! Also Enigmatic Reptiles has a great Raining Red Stripe project going on. I would check out their stuff if you want to get into the cutting edge of rainwaters and/or red stripes Here are a couple threads to show you what they've posted in the past:

Creative Gecko:

http://geckoforums.net/f124-show-off-your-leos/96727.htm

http://geckoforums.net/f124-show-off-your-leos/93467.htm

Enigmatic Reptile:

http://geckoforums.net/f124-show-off-your-leos/92784.htm

http://geckoforums.net/f124-show-off-your-leos/91523.htm (Video on his RRS "Acid Stripe" Project!)

 

[perfectsoldier23]

Incredible response - you answered all my questions in a way I can understand! Thank you so much!
Looking into some females that meet the specs. And thank you so much for the genetics links! Such a massive help. Will be reading through those shortly.

Thanks again!

Welcome to GF. I will try to address your questions.

Research about genetics and breeding:
Leopard Gecko Wiki --read the morph articles
Reptile Calculator --get the phone app too
Guide to Breeding Leopard Geckos on a Small Scale | Gecko Time
Fun with Hets: Leopard Geckos Teach Genetics 101 | Gecko Time

Rainwater basic genetics:
Rainwater albino is a recessive trait. That means that if your gecko looks albino, it has 2 copies of the gene. If it had only 1 copy, it would not look albino but would be able to pass it on to offspring. If you want to produce more rainwater albinos, you have to get a female that is either a rainwater, or "het" for rainwater (has 1 copy of the gene). THere is no way to know that she is het unless you know that one parent was a rainwater or that a trusworthy breeder told you. If a breeder doesn't spontaneously tell you what albino strain their gecko is, you should ask. If they don't know, don't buy an albino from them.

Raining Red Stripes: three traits combine to produce them:
rainwater albino: as mentioned above, recessive

striped: instead of bands like your gecko has, the striped geckos have a colored pattern that runs head to tail. Both the body bands and the tail bands are broken this way. This is a line bred (polygenetic) trait, meaning that the best way to get it is to make sure at least one of your breeding group is striped and to hold back and breed the best striped babies to further improve the line. It's likely that if you get a striped female, some of the babies will be aberrant (broken tail or body bands but not both), jungle ("camouflage" patches that orient vertically but don't really look like stripes) or striped.

Red: tangerine coloring. Also line bred (see above). To try to produce raining redstripes using your male, you would probably need a raining redstripe female and then see if you get any babies that inherit primarily her traits. A more DIY method would be to get a rainwater (or het) female that is either striped or tang, produce nice looking babies and then breed them to a gecko that has the trait your female didn't display.

Have fun.

Aliza

 

[perfectsoldier23]

Thank you so much! These are incredible projects to refer to! Makes me want some raining red striped babies even more seeing how insanely gorgeous these turned out :]
That Dreamsicle is to die for.

 

[perfectsoldier23]

I found a Super Hypo Tangerine Carrot Tail female - het. Rainwater from geckosetc.com that seems to be the perfect match...but she has a regenerated tail. Will that be an issue? She's severely marked down because of it.

photo is copyright www.geckosetc.com
;]

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Regenerated tails are no issue when breeding. They just mean that part of the geckos tail has fallen off in the past. As long as it regrew it's fine, usually they're just not as pretty as the original

 

[perfectsoldier23]

Okay, perfect!

 

[Phoenix1115]

That one's tail looks like just the tip is regenerated because I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed out. It is VERY fat! Perfect for breeding.

 

[perfectsoldier23]

Very glad to hear that!

That one's tail looks like just the tip is regenerated because I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed out. It is VERY fat! Perfect for breeding.

 

[perfectsoldier23]

I'm having one heck of a time finding ANY rainwater tangerines.
I read somewhere that the Rainwater strain is primarily used in creating high yellows, whereas the Temper strain is used in creating the orange colors.
I see it being a better re-sale project to get the Rainwater strain and breeding for the Raining Red Stripes....What is the Temper equivalent?
If raining red stripes are RW albino, stripe and red/tangerine, what would be Tremper albino, stripe and red/tangerine? Same thing visually just different albinism trait?

 

[acpart]

To the best of my knowledge, no one has given the Tremper redstripes a special name. The closest anyone has come are the APTOR's which stands for [Tremper]Albino
Patternless (i.e. patternless stripe, created from stripe x reverse stripe cancelling out the markings) Tangerine ORange (kind of redundant, but makes a good acronym).

It seems to me that if you get that tangerine het RW albino female and take the orangest albino offspring, breed them to a high quality redstripe and then breed the best of those offspring back to each other to get the albino redstripe, you'll be there in 2 generations.

Aliza

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Also look for the terns Firewater (a line of RW Sunglows) and anything with the term "rain" in the name. Raining Red Stripe, Atomic Rain, Acid Rain, etc. The Raptor version is called a Typhoon (RW eclipse) as well. Rainwaters are the rarest of the three albinos so you may have to hunt for them more than the others but they are out there!

 

[perfectsoldier23]

You guys are awesome, thank you so much. I'm learning a lot and seeing the traits and qualities that I want to breed for.
I did find this raining Red Stripe female. She's missing a few toe nails....

She doesn't have as distinct of striping, nor as "red" as I had hoped but I do want to do my own little bit of selective breeding next generation as well...probably introduce more red and/or striping depending upon what her first clutch yields.

 

[perfectsoldier23]

I suppose my question is.....
Despite the fact that this female doesn't show the blatant traits that I want [bold, obvious striping and vibrant tangerine], is there a possibility her offspring will?
I asked if she was about to shed because she's insanely lighter in the picture I posted as opposed to the first picture I saw of her on the website. If she was that true tangerine I saw online, I'd be less apprehensive.

The breeder [albeysreptiles.com] also said that this particular female is from Jeremy Letkey's original Raining RedStripe stock and that this leo's mother and father were directly from his program.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

She could have a more vibrant offspring but if you breed her to a male that is less colorful than her chances are you'll wind up with offspring somewhere in between.

RW is (in my opinion) the most challenging of the albinos to work with. Not only because they are more uncommon but because they don't hold color as well as the other two. The tend to have a washed out "muted" look that may be a factor in their being less popular. That said, when they do hold color they can be AWESOME! And can outshine even bell albinos (I'm a bit biased tho!! haha) There are a few breeders starting to get some insane orange in their RWs so it may not be too long before they are hit out of the ball park!

 

[perfectsoldier23]

Definitely makes sense!
I've seen some insanely vibrant RW stripes and some more yellow "albino" looking ones. Both are dang beautiful to me but I can see how the vibrant ones are more popular.
While I do have a set desired outcome, I don't want it to be incredibly easy so to speak. I don't want gecko A and gecko B to produce the perfect offspring as I'd like to incorporate my own twist if possible, which, in this case, will be to add more red. ;]

I did end up purchasing that Raining Red Stripes female from Albysgeckos.com. She should arrive Thursday morning and I couldn't be more excited! When breeding season comes around, she's settled in nicely and I'm able to get the first clutch from her, It's my plan to pick the offspring that hold the best results - brightest coloration as well as the most distinct stripes. From these offspring, depending upon what they're lacking [whether it be red or stripes], I will probably shop for a third gecko that shows those traits. Is the way I understand it the way it generally works?

 

[acpart]

You have certainly chosen a good place to get your gecko from! I find that young juvies often have the most vibrant color and then it fades, especially after breeding (I don't have any RW, I"m mostly talking abouta Trempers). Hopefully you'll come up with something that doesn't fade out though, as you say, it may take a few generations.

Aliza

 

[perfectsoldier23]

Awesome! I'm glad to hear that where I purchased her was a reputable place. The seller working with me has been amazingly helpful and extremely honest. She came this morning with no surprises and just as described. I was very, very pleased.
So, I can introduce more orange coloration to her offspring each generation? Will I be diluting the other traits like the stripes? [if they show].

Here's "Annie" - she's settling in really well so far!

 

[acpart]

Congratulations on your new gecko. If you choose the geckos that come closest to what you're looking for (in terms of stripes and orange coloring) each generation, hold them back and breed them to the parent or to each other (being sure to outcross to unrelated geckos every other generation or so) you will eventually get what you want.

Aliza