RAPTORs

[herplover92]

Will RAPTORS decrease in price or will they actually stay stable or go up due to the Diablo Blanco involving RAPTOR blood?

I want to get a RAPTOR but I dont want to pay $400 for a male and then have people selling them at $100. If they are going to go down in price I rather wait and buy them later because I have no spare money to spend.

 

[eyelids]

Might as well wait, but it'll be at least another year before they're that cheap...

 

[herplover92]

I will wait, or get one at Daytona. I really want one!

 

[preacherman]

They will continue to hold their value. The raptors will be like tangs; the nicer they are the more they will be worth. There is a lot of potential yet, and they will continue to get nicer over time.

 

[SaSobek]

IMO the price for a good one will stay up it is sometimes hard to get both eyes perfect then there is always makeing the color better and more carrot tail i think there will be some that are cheap but the price on a good one will stay up. it is not as simple as some of the other traits.

i mean this is just me but i have produced about 40 RAPTOR/ Eclipse this year maybe 5 are solid on both sides. the rest are snake eyed

also there are many thing that can be crossed into it. so the price, i would think will stay up for a while longer.

 

[herplover92]

I will probably get a male at daytona then.

Anyone who wants to get into ball pythons and breeds geckos, I have a male pastel who weighs 311 grams that I am willing to trade for a RAPTOR or APTOR.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I dont know, some have allready been selling them for $200 a piece.

Be it a little inconsiderate, to others who were still tying to get more than that for hets. But...

Before you know it someone will do the same to them, and then :main_thumbsdown: :main_thumbsdown: :main_thumbsdown:

 

[preacherman]

I dont know, some have allready been selling them for $200 a piece.

Be it a little inconsiderate, to others who were still tying to get more than that for hets. But...

Before you know it someone will do the same to them, and then :main_thumbsdown: :main_thumbsdown: :main_thumbsdown:

People can sell them for whatever they want. The really nice ones will continue to hold their value. You can buy a tang for $25, or you can get one for $500. The nicer they are, they more they're worth, simple as that. And they will keep getting nicer:main_yes:

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Yes they can be inconsiderate to others, and do whatever they want, even if in turn someone else comes along, does the same thing to them, and it ruins an entire market for a morph. What sense does that make?:main_rolleyes:

There is a difference between someone being competitive, and just flat outright undercutting fellow breeders.

So when I have priced homozygous morphs for less than your hets, it makes no difference because I can sell them for whatever I want, right? What do you call that? I`de call it, I just screwed you out of a lot of money, even if all it would have done is paid for your mealworms, and electricity. Why would I do that to you? I would not!

I could go down the street and start robbing people too, but you dont see me doing it, just because I can. Nope, you basically cannot do "what you want", you want to be a breeder, and have a website, and sell online, well there are other people that are doing this too, that were here before you, and there is such thing as respect.

 

[bittner_344]

i agree dan.

 

[herplover92]

you all have to excues me but i come from the ball python market where a sales car person decided to breed ball pythons and brought the price of a $2,000 morph to just $800 over night.

I was just wondering if this was going to be the case with the leo morphs because I see a lot of people interested in them. I could be wrong because I also see there is a big market for leos and a mass of people willing to pay $2000 for a new morph, or selling out on 06's.

 

[eyelids]

Right now there's so many BP morphs that the consensus is to strive towards making a new combo or who'll import the next big thing... You don't see many breeders trying to upgrade the quality of a single morph...

Sure it happens with Leo morphs, but since the turn around is so much faster the big boom lasts only so long. After a couple of seasons the combos have been made and what's left is to refine the morph by selectively breeding for a nicer gecko.

It's like what Jason said,

The nicer they are, they more they're worth, simple as that.

 

[okapi]

True. I have a feeling that in the future anything not top of the line that is eclipsed will level out in price, but those with good carrot heads, carrot tails, and body color and pattern will sell for more. Any raptor produced from RT's DB breeding project will have good value because they are het for blizzard. I personally think DBs are nice because of the genetic package they contain. Expressing three traits, and carrying alot of polygenetic ones as well. That will keep raptors in the limelight, because raptors and BBs are the best things to breed to a DB unless you have a pair of DBs...

 

[preacherman]

Yes they can be inconsiderate to others, and do whatever they want, even if in turn someone else comes along, does the same thing to them, and it ruins an entire market for a morph. What sense does that make?:main_rolleyes:

There is a difference between someone being competitive, and just flat outright undercutting fellow breeders.

So when I have priced homozygous morphs for less than your hets, it makes no difference because I can sell them for whatever I want, right? What do you call that? I`de call it, I just screwed you out of a lot of money, even if all it would have done is paid for your mealworms, and electricity. Why would I do that to you? I would not!

I could go down the street and start robbing people too, but you dont see me doing it, just because I can. Nope, you basically cannot do "what you want", you want to be a breeder, and have a website, and sell online, well there are other people that are doing this too, that were here before you, and there is such thing as respect.

I appreciate your insight, Dan. I hope you're not talking about me, though. There is a big difference between undercutting the current market and trying to payoff a major medical expense.

 

[PaulSage]

Yes they can be inconsiderate to others, and do whatever they want, even if in turn someone else comes along, does the same thing to them, and it ruins an entire market for a morph. What sense does that make?:main_rolleyes:

It makes perfect sense from an economic standpoint. If two breeders are offering the same product, the one who offers that product at a lower price to the consumer is going to get the sale (assuming all other factors are consistant). If one competitor in a market can afford to sell the same product [gecko] at a cheaper price than the other competitors, they have a comparative advantage. You have to remember that there is a limited quantity of consumers in the RAPTOR market, or any other reptile market for that matter. If ten consumers are looking to purchase a RAPTOR, the ten RAPTORs at the lowest prices will be the ones that sell (again, you have to assume all factors other than price are the same).

There is a difference between someone being competitive, and just flat outright undercutting fellow breeders.

Is there? If one breeder can afford to sell an XYZ gecko cheaper than another breeder and consequently does sell them at a lower price in order to "win" the consumer by "undercutting" the price offered by another breeder, they are being competitive.

So when I have priced homozygous morphs for less than your hets, it makes no difference because I can sell them for whatever I want, right? What do you call that? I`de call it, I just screwed you out of a lot of money, even if all it would have done is paid for your mealworms, and electricity. Why would I do that to you? I would not!

Again, we get back to comparative advantages. Obviously you can sell your geckos for whatever you want provided there is a buyer willing to pay the price you're asking. Whether or not you (or any other breeder) can afford to sell a gecko at a lower price depends on the opportunity costs of producing the gecko itself. Those costs are not going to necessarily be the same for each breeder. As far as what I'd call it, well I guess Free Enterprise sounds good.

I could go down the street and start robbing people too, but you dont see me doing it, just because I can. Nope, you basically cannot do "what you want", you want to be a breeder, and have a website, and sell online, well there are other people that are doing this too, that were here before you, and there is such thing as respect.

Robbing people is a crime so I don't see how it compares to the Leopard Gecko market. It's an apples to oranges comparison. One thing is against the law, and the other is actually protected by the law (right to Free Enterprise). I don't understand what you mean by "you basically cannot do what you want." Why can't you? Unless what you want to do is against the law or beyond your means, I see no rationale for how that statement could apply to the Leopard Gecko maket.

Anyhow, as far as the original question to this thread, I agree with Jason. Considering the variability of the RAPTOR genes and the polygenic traits involved, I would expect to see the "nicer" ones holding their value and estrange themselves pricewise from the rest of the RAPTORS.

 

[ssscales]

Very very good post on all points Paul!

I don't know anything about Leo markets and won't pretend to. IMO on the market on anything whether it be Boas or BP's or whether it's Leos or Torts. Is set your price for what you feel they are worth and feel you can get in the current market. Not the market last year or two years ago or two years from now, things change! Whether your price is above or below anyone else's should not be the driving piece for the way you price your animals. Your quality may be less than or better than others. If your overhead is lower and it cost you less per Leo to produce and maintain your collection Vs someone with huge overhead, this is a good thing in business!

When I price my snakes for example I will look at what's out there that year. I may see some breeders with what I feel are better quality examples of morph X and may decide I need to adjust my price. I may feel my morph X is much better than those on the current market and again will base my price as so. Quality, supply, demand, overhead costs all should play a part in setting a price. IMO everyone has the right to set their prices as they see fit in a free market, right or wrong.

Don't just focus on one seller who may need some money to get out of a jam or the seller with the weekend sale.

Just my $0.02

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Jason, no not really, you were/are not the only person selling them around that price. I just think there is sort of a happy medium, in which we can all be happy. Y`know.

Paul,

Yes they can be inconsiderate to others, and do whatever they want, even if in turn someone else comes along, does the same thing to them, and it ruins an entire market for a morph.

It makes perfect sense from an economic standpoint. If two breeders are offering the same product, the one who offers that product at a lower price to the consumer is going to get the sale (assuming all other factors are consistant). If one competitor in a market can afford to sell the same product [gecko] at a cheaper price than the other competitors, they have a comparative advantage. [/QUOTE] I mean more like there is the difference between being competitive, and "lowballing". You just said this makes sense,

Yes they can be inconsiderate to others, and do whatever they want, even if in turn someone else comes along, does the same thing to them, and it ruins an entire market for a morph

??

There is such thing as gradual reduction, so as not to cause everyone to have to suddenly lower their prices as well. That is what I mean. There is a way to be respectable, and competitive. Obviously w/ several hundred dollar animals, we can all "afford" to sell them for alot less than that, so why don`t we just hurry and drop the price of every morph ASAP? $50 a piece, man c`mon, at least TruthStings will be happy. :main_rolleyes: I dont know about you, but I would like to be able to make a little something for my time spent cleaning. I could not do that with $50 geckos, which is why I am not a big fan of large sudden drops in price. I know what can happen, and it happens quickly.

Example: Something is going for just say: $800 -and this does not apply to any morph or anything at all in particular.

Competitive- $600-780

Lowballing- $100-$400 just totally "undercutting" other people, and the "profitability". Something like THAT in turn could as I said "ruin an entire market". I think you know what I meant now.

It is money we are talking about, and we all know that can cause problems, even among family and friends.

You "cant" do that, because we are more of a community, and there is such thing as working together. Are you going to be upsetting someone else? Then you "cant" do that. Like morals.

Obviously everyone prices their geckos differently, but they are similar. I guess you could get all technical and everyone is "undercutting" eachother. That is not really what I meant though.:main_rolleyes:

Wow you took that literally? Robbing people is not nice, lowballing the market prices, is alot like stealing in that it is not nice. It could also be taking money away from the sellers that lowball pricing has affected. That is about the only comparison. I did not really mean, to compare them, it was a bad example. Has someone not recently changed the battery in their sarcasm detector?

Yes, "nicer" geckos is general will always be worth more than others.

 

[PaulSage]

Paul,

It makes perfect sense from an economic standpoint. If two breeders are offering the same product, the one who offers that product at a lower price to the consumer is going to get the sale (assuming all other factors are consistant). If one competitor in a market can afford to sell the same product [gecko] at a cheaper price than the other competitors, they have a comparative advantage.

I mean more like there is the difference between being competitive, and "lowballing". You just said this makes sense,??

Dan, I skipped over the "ruining the market" part because I don't consider basic supply and demand to be "ruining" a market. Supply and demand are what drive the market. If the price drops, it's either because demand has decreased or production has increased. So I guess if anyone is responsible for "ruining" the RAPTOR market, I guess it would be anyone who produces RAPTORS because they are adding to the production. The rest of that sentence is, well, business.

There is such thing as gradual reduction, so as not to cause everyone to have to suddenly lower their prices as well. That is what I mean. There is a way to be respectable, and competitive. Obviously w/ several hundred dollar animals, we can all "afford" to sell them for alot less than that, so why don`t we just hurry and drop the price of every morph ASAP? $50 a piece, man c`mon, at least TruthStings will be happy. :main_rolleyes: I dont know about you, but I would like to be able to make a little something for my time spent cleaning. I could not do that with $50 geckos, which is why I am not a big fan of large sudden drops in price. I know what can happen, and it happens quickly.

All it takes is one business/individual to post lower prices and then the rest tend to follow, so I agree with you that price drops can happen quickly. WHY it happens quickly is more important in my opinion than just how quick they fall though. The longer "Bob" houses a gecko, the higher his cost of producing that gecko is. So, if the "market price" starts to decrease, it would only make sense to protect himself against falling prices by lowering his price as well to hopefully sell the gecko before he spends any more money maintaining it. And again, there is a limited market of consumers looking to buy any given product. Once those consumers have all purchased the product, what are suppliers supposed to do with the rest if they want to sell them? A: Lower the price.

Example: Something is going for just say: $800 -and this does not apply to any morph or anything at all in particular.

Competitive- $600-780

Lowballing- $100-$400 just totally "undercutting" other people, and the "profitability". Something like THAT in turn could as I said "ruin an entire market". I think you know what I meant now.

Sure, but again, if the individual or business selling that animal at $100-400 can afford to do so, they are exercising their competitive advantage over the competition. Not only will they "win" the customers, but they'll be able to sell more of the animal at that price because they're widening the market of consumers that can afford the animal.

It is money we are talking about, and we all know that can cause problems, even among family and friends.

You "cant" do that, because we are more of a community, and there is such thing as working together. Are you going to be upsetting someone else? Then you "cant" do that. Like morals.

When competing producers of a product ban together and agree on prices, that's price fixing, which is illegal. Can you imagine what would happen if Wal-Mart kept their prices higher just so that they didn't hurt Target's feelings? I understand that the reptile community is pretty close, but ... it's still business. Plain and simple. You can't pick and choose where you want economics to work.

Wow you took that literally? Robbing people is not nice, lowballing the market prices, is alot like stealing in that it is not nice. It could also be taking money away from the sellers that lowball pricing has affected. That is about the only comparison. I did not really mean, to compare them, it was a bad example.

Lowballing may not be "nice" but being nice to the competition isn't exactly going to help a business succeed. The only way that it is "like stealing" is when the seller offering the lower prices steals customers from the competition. It's still business.

Has someone not recently changed the battery in their sarcasm detector?

I'm old school and haven't upgraded to the cordless yet. Mine plugs into the wall. :main_laugh:

 

[DAWNoftheLEO]

You guys' are great...

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

I'm old school and haven't upgraded to the cordless yet. Mine plugs into the wall.

:main_laugh: