Shedding problem ( 3 days shed remaining on the body, head, tail, hands...)

[SenSx]

Hi everyone,



I have been having a leopard gecko for 3 weeks, this is my first gecko, and my first lizard.
He is a beautiful male mack snow without a bit of yellow, called Snow (I got really inspired).
Unfortunately, I alwready have some problems with him, but the emergency is probably his shedding, and I need your opinions and advices.
English is not my native language, so I will try to explain myself as much as I can, sorry for making mistakes.

My gecko has been shedding since Saturday, so it has been 4 days (today is the 4th).
Most of the shed still remains on his body, head, tail, and hands, and I don't know what to do.
I heard it usually only takes a couple of minutes for gekco to get rid of it, so I am worried, plus he is 2 years old, and should be able to handle this problem alone.
At first he was trying to scratch himself on everything he could find (paper towel substrate...), unfortunately, there was not enough good surfaces for that at the time.
I added some decor for that : 2 branch, but it looks like he has given up getting rid of his shed, he is not trying anymore.
I have a moist box with humid vermiculite, and I made sure it was wet enough (but not too much).
He did go in it for a moment, but not anymore.
So yesterday, I put him in a box with wet paper towel for about 1 or 2 hours (with holes for breathing).
But he did not work on his shed either, and did not seem to like being in the box (he hates to be in that kind of small boxes).
So I gave him bath soak during 10 minutes, and made sure every part of the shed remaining was getting wet.
Today he is sleeping, and I don't want to bother him yet, so I don't know if he got rid of the shed, but I don't think so.

I am planning to give him a bath again tonight, and everyday after that, but I don't know if this would be too much for him ? ( can it be dangerous for him to be hydrated that often this way ?).
I admit I got rid of a small portion of his shed myself first, but then stopped, and checked on the internet if it was okay...apparently it is not...
Now I don't dare to pull of his shed myself, I don't want to harm him... So can I do it or not ? Maybe after several days if he still has the shed, and in a very gently way ?
I tried to scratch him very gently with a Q-tip during the bath (without trying to pull of the shed), but he did not seem to like that, so I stopped quicly.
Should I bring him to a vet if he still has the shed in the incoming days ?

One of his eye has yellow borders now (he is a very white mack snow, so yellow color here is not normal), and it is worrying me a bit, is it only the color of the shed, and therefore, is it normal ?
The other eye is not yellow like that on the borders, while it still has shed around it like the other eye.

http://www.pixenli.com/images/1416/1416925257067737600.jpg

I tried to called his previous owners several times, leaving them messages to ask them more question, but they are not answering or calling me.




- General informations:

I have him in a 20 gallon tank in my room.
temp are 89,600°F /87,800°F on the warm side to 77°F /78,800°F on the cold side ( 32°C/31°C on the warm side to 25°C/26°C on the cold side).
Humidity is 40/50 daytime, and 50/65 during the night.
My substrate is paper towel, but I plan to change it.
He always sleeps in his hot hide daytime (at 89,600°F /87,800°F - 32°C/31°C) and nowhere else, never in his cold hide.
I have a heating carpet with a thermostat on the hot side, and a heating lamp on the cold side (I know this is strange, but my cold side was too cold before that according to my vet).
I am checking the temp with a temp gun.
There is a litle bowl with calcium only (no vitamins), but I have never seen him lick it.
I tried to put calcium on the crickets I gave him, but he never ate them with it.
I don't have any UV lamp, but I plan to put some vitamins on his food instead (with D3 and others) once a month, but could not so far, because he is rarely eating.
I change his water every day, and see him drink very evening, usually after waking up.

He is not eating much, every 3 or 4 days only, and very few at a time: last week he only ate 4 mealworms, and one cricket.
He is making only diarrea with sometimes but rarely, a red liquid that looks like blood, but might not be, I don't know...
The poops diarreas are not liquid, but not solid either, and look just a bit green/yellow.

http://www.pixenli.com/images/1416/1416925402056553800.jpg

He weighs 52 grammes.
I brought him to a vet specialized in reptiles within the first week (he was not shedding yet), because of the diarrea, and the red liquid.
He told me diarrea could be caused by stress ( he is new in his environnement) and bad temperatures (my hot side was too hot, and my cold side was too cold).
But the poops are still the same now.
The vet said the gecko was ok but needed to gain weight, and I brought a poop to the lab to know if he has parasites.
I has been 3 weeks, and they are now telling me the poop sample is negative so far, but was too small to really know if it is ok or not, so I have to bring an other one (here we go again for 3 weeks to wait ...)

Sorry for the long post, I wanted to give as much information as possible.

Thx for any help !

 

[sausage]

I cant really help with the poop situation apart from the fact that blood is not normal. Will they check for crypto when they test the new sample?
I would for now make sure he is totally away from your others and use a separate set of tools or make sure you thoroughly clean them with boiling water and bleach or something. to prevent anything passing on to your others.

You could try making a slurry to syringe feed him if hes not eating.

With the skin it does need to come off. Its not good to leave the dead skin on him for prolonged periods of time due to constriction mainly. but left on skin will also create problems for the new skin underneath too.
I have a male whos a lazy shedder, I regularly have to peel him off. As long as the skin is 100% ready to come off, it shouldn't harm him if you remove it off for him.

 

[SenSx]

Thx for your answer.

I don't remember well what they planned to check in the lab, but I think it was crypto, I'll ask them again next time.
I don't have any other geckos, he is my first, so no other leo in danger.

About the slurry, do they sell it in reptile stores or on the internet ?
Because I don't think I am capable of doing it myself with leaving insects, even if it sounds stupid, I know...

My gekco looks really lazy, because he is not very active at night, and tends to stare the crickets or the worms I am giving him, but rarely tries to catch them.
He sometimes seem interested, but just stares at them, and eventually catch a cricket if it comes in front of him...but does not most of the time.
In the end crickets were hiding under him, jumping on his back and head...
Even with mealworms, he can stay long minutes in front of the bowl, just watching them, and eventually eating one after a long time.
He looks really shy.
I tried to feed him with a pliers ( don't know if it is the fitting word), but he did not want.
And now I have to wait even longer to get proper lab results, even if my poor gecko is ill...
At night he sometimes remain still outside of his hide, without moving at all, and I don't know if it is normal.
I thought he needed time to get settled in his new environnement...but it has been more than 3 weeks, and is still not eating properly...

Back on the main topic of the shed (I'll create an other one about my trouble to feed him ).
Since I was not getting any answer, I gave him an other bath, acted like an idiot I think: I pulled of a large piece of shed on his back and tail with my hand.
I did it as gently and slow as I could, but now I think maybe I should not have done that, if it can be that damaging for a gecko...I am really worried.
But it has been 4 days since he has begun shedding...and tomorrow will be the 5th...
He is still having shed remaining on his legs, hands, a bit left on the tail, but above all, the shed on his whole face and eyes (with that yellow color on the corners of one eye).
I' ll call my vet tomorrow to know if I can remove the rest of the shed myself, like I did tonight.
I don't see any other way, he is not trying to get rid of it anymore, even after the bathes, and I don't think the shed will come off by itself.
how can I know if the skin is 100% ready to come off ?
I also moved the moist box on the warm side.
I always thought it had to be on the cold side, but apparently it can be moved on the warm side during the shedding.
Does it have to always be on the warm side ? The moist box is useless on the cold part of the tank ?


Thx for the help.

 

[indyana]

After baths (or humid box treatments), you should gently remove the shed with your fingers or a cotton swab. Just do so carefully. He certainly won't like it, but the skin needs to be removed and not constrict his tail or toes.

Continue consulting the vet to see if he requires treatment, as the blood is certainly not normal. Also, be sure to get appropriate reptile multivitamins, calcium, and D3 onto his insects so that he will receive proper nutrition when he does eat.

Gecko slurry can be made, but he does not appear very thin or weak at the moment, so he should be able to eat his own food eventually.
http://geckoforums.net/f130-health-medications/54742.htm

 

[SenSx]

Thank you,

he did not seem to dislike his shed being removed (he was not moving at all), not untill I tried to remove the shed remaining on his toes...
It looked so fragile, so I gave up, and hope I did not damage them.
In fact he seems to like being handled (or it is only an interpretation), how often can I do that so that he becomes used to me, but not stressed to much ?
I called my vet, and he told me to give im a bath every day, and not to remove anymore shed myself.
According to him I have to wait 7/10 days, and if he still have shed on his head and hands, to bring the gecko to him and check what we can do.
I will have the poops final results soon, and certainely will have to bring another sample to the lab.

The gecko was bearely eating nowadays, so I gave him crickets yesterday, and was so happy to se him hunt them as he had never done it before !
He was a lot more motivated, and was truly pouncing on them from afar.
But he only ate two of them, failed his next attempts, and seemed to loose energy, and gave up I think...
I tried to put him in a smaller box with crickets to make it easier, but he failed again, and gave up again.
I'll try tomorrow to put him in the box again with crickets instead of giving them in the tank first.
Maybe he will go crazy again at start, and will be more effective in the box.
He might need training and more self confidence ? lol I don't know...

Next time I'll try to put some vitamins on the crickets, hope he will eat them, because i noticed crickets with vitamins onto them that are not eaten, tend to die quickly...
That is why I stopped putting calcium and vitamins on the crickets lately since he was not eating them at all...
Maybe it prevent them from breathing correctly...

 

[sausage]

settling in period is completely different different for each animal. some may take days whereas others may take weeks to months. so by the sounds of it thats the reason that he is not eating at the moment.

youll know the skin is ready to come off when it has gone completely white, any skin not ready will still be firmly stuck and more normal coloured. As already said the skin really needs to come off soon as possible. other wise it will constrict areas such as the toes causing them pain and then it will eventually die and drop off :S
this is also important for the head as skin left near/ on the eyes to prevent eye caps/ infection and blindness.

 

[SenSx]

Yes I really hope it is about settling.
I red it takes 1 week or 2 for geckos to feel good in their new environnement, so I was worried when I saw mine was still not eating properlly after 3 weeks (and now 1 month).
I want to add a rock decor I built myself, but it was not ready yet.
Now it is, but I don't want to "reset" his settling, if you see what I mean, because it will change completly his environnement inside the tank.
It will remove all the hides he has now,since this rock will have them all (and even more, because it has a cold and a hot hide, a mixed temp hide in the middle, and an other one upstairs, plus he will be able to climb, I hope he will like it ).
Do you think this decor will fit for a leoaprd gecko ? Do you find it good ?
Should I still wait a bit to add it ? Will it stress him again and prevent him from eating properly ?

http://www.pixenli.com/images/1417/1417131936030788000.jpg

About the shed...I am a bit confused, my vet told me I had to wait 7/10 days before trying to remove it, and that I should not remove it myself alone this time, I will have to bring the gecko to the vet.
Do you think I should bring him sooner ?
Can I wait untill monday for that ? Or do I have to go tomorrow or saturday ?

Thx for the help

 

[indyana]

The problem with waiting for toes is that they can become constricted if the shed dries on them. The daily baths should help the skin to remain soft and hopefully come off. If you see some of his toes become swollen and red, that is a warning sign. I believe the vet told you to wait because he wished to minimize stress on your gecko and was hoping the animal would work off the skin himself.

Your rock decor looks good. Just be certain you leave room for a moist/humid hide in his cage, as that will help prevent future shedding issues. I would suggest waiting to change around the environment though. It's important to get your gecko healthy and eating well again before causing more disruptions.

 

[SenSx]

Thank you,

I have always had the moist box inside the tank (with wet vermiculite), the upper left level of the decor is where i will place it on that rock, leaving more free space for him on the ground.
However, I've red the moist box has to be on the cold side, but on the contrary, I now found people saying it should be on the warm side, or in the middle...So I don't know what to think of it.

Concerning the shedding, I will bring the gecko to the vet next week, on monday or thursday, wendsay if I can't earlier....unless the shed com off before that.
He is still goign to get a bath everyday untill then.

Your help are very much appricated Sausage and Indyana, Thx !

 

[indyana]

You're welcome. Good luck with the shed!

And yes, there are many opinions on where to put the moist hide. I've settled for the middle temperature range myself.

 

[SenSx]

I just checked the himidity lately, and it was extremely low ! At 10 on the hygtometer !
What is happening ?
The last tiems à checked it was above 40 daytime, and the tank is near a window...
My poor gekco, I now understand why he ahs problem shedding...
I now have put my hygrometer permanenly inside the tank, eventhough I don't find it very aesthetic.

Why is humidity so low ?
Maybe it is because I am using a head pad on the warm side, and a hot lamp on the cold side...Both of those heatsystems might make lower the humidity too much.
I was adviced by other people to get rid of the headpad, and only put on heat lamp on the warm side, but a warmer lamp than the one I currently have.
Mybe it will give me a better temp gradient, because Is truggle to get a good one, that is why I have two heat system.

Thx for any help

 

[indyana]

Replied to your post in the Housing forum.

 

[SenSx]

Thx,

I created on other topic on that in the housing section to get as many answers as possible on this particular subject.

So I went to my vet again, and he tried to remove the shed with tweezers, but could not get everything.
He told me the rest was not ready to come of,...which I doubt, it has been 10 days since my gecko had his shed.
Plus he told me the skin was not humid enough, but he did not even give a bath to the gecko, nor did he put water on the shed.
There are still plenty of little shed parts on most of the fingers, the mouse, testicles...and on my god, on his eyelid...How am I going to remove this ?
Sometimes I can't even tell this is shed or his skin (my mack snow is quite white).
I am going to give him bathes every day, and brush gently the shed with a brush or a Q-tip, maybe use tweezers but I don't feel confident with it, and there are many parts on which it won't be effective.
I think I'm screwd, I'll never be able to get rid of this...
Should I try another vet ?

Thx

 

[indyana]

You might try doing longer humidity treatments by placing the gecko in a container with damp paper towels for 15-20 minutes. Leave a bit of ventilation, and it would be best if you kept the container warm. I've placed containers on the warm end of cages for this purpose. As for any eye caps, dropping water or pure saline onto the eye(s) before the humidity treatment will help soften them.

I realize trying to remove shed from a very annoyed leopard gecko can be pretty nerve wracking, but the key is patience. You can certainly look for another vet to help if you need it.

 

[SenSx]

I tried to remove the shed from one of the toe, but I accidently tore a claw from one of his finger...
The toe is intact, but the claw is gone, and it is now bleeding...
Will it grow back ?

I should not have insisted that much, but I was anxious with the shed on his toes, he now has it for 15 days.

 

[indyana]

If you've merely broken it short, it may grow back, but it if has been completely removed, it will not regenerate.

 

[SenSx]

I finally have the results from the poops analysis...and my poor gecko has a crypto.
I was sold a ill leopard gecko, and the owner new it, this is disgusting.
My vet says there is no treatment, is there really no way to heal it ?

For the moment he still looks ok, not loosing weight, and barelly eating, but still eating (about 3 or 4 crickets peer week).
So I don't think I am going to euthanize him for now...but my vet said he will probably only live a few months, before it gets worse, and then I will have to...

 

[indyana]

They are working on publishing a pilot study for Cryptosporidium treatment, but unfortunately, it is true that there is not a treatment regimen available at this time. If you're interested in knowing when the paper is published, you can follow the project on Facebook. It may not come soon enough to save your gecko though.
https://www.facebook.com/killcrypto

If you do not have other reptiles, you can certainly try to maintain your gecko. People have done it; it is possible for a gecko to survive while Crypto positive, although not extremely likely. If you do have other reptiles, it would be safer to euthanize, as there is a high risk for spreading Crypto around. It is difficult to kill and does not respond to most common disinfectants.

Here's a post from someone who has been successfully keeping her gecko alive:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/thegeckoblog/permalink/760235240680282/

This does help explain the shedding issues though. That's one of the early symptoms of Crypto infection.

 

[SenSx]

Thx

I forgot to say that his crypto is actually dormant, which explains why he is still eating a bit.
How long can a crypto remain dormant before it becomes really dangerous for the gecko ?
Are there any risks for my cats, my rabbit, or even me ?

 

[indyana]

There isn't a timetable for Crypto being dormant/asymptomatic. It can lurk in their systems for some time before they start a downward spiral. The best way to fight it is to keep the gecko healthy, as any stress could trigger a boom for the parasite.

There's not a risk to you, as the Cryptosporidium that infects reptiles is not the same as the variety that infects humans. I would assume it is the same with any other mammal and would not post a risk to cats/rabbits. Other reptiles, yes.

You may want to check out the gutload ingredients here that are in the "Foods to Boost Immune Health".
Much Ado About Chameleons: The Anatomy of Gut-Loading | Ingredients & Nutritional Info