so what am i missing?

[cwazy]

i keep reading the if i mix this with that what will i get posts and it seems most of them go back to normal... so im confused how this all works... say i bred a hypo tang het for T. albino with lets say a paternless something or other *the strain has not be concluded* would i end up with normals for the first year?

or say i bred the hypo tang. het for Tremp albino with a *i cant remember the proper word* jungle that didnt jungle out all the way poss. het for bell albino... what do i get... more normals? ***EDIT... Abberant was the word i was looking for... Abberant***

im just so confused how i take 2 different morphs and end up with normals het for...

anyone care to explain to the idiot thats still tryin to figure this all out? :main_rolleyes:

 

[thestack510]

The three albino strains are incompatible. If you cross them you end up with normal looking Leos that are het for both strains of albinism. If you're planning on crossing strains It will take two generations minimum to see any good results like the RADAR Bells or LV/RW Typhoons. You would save yourself a lot of time by sticking to what's compatible, unless you're going for RADARs or Typhoons, in which case you'd be saving yourself some money by making double hets and going for it on your own.

 

[BethanyB]

It has a lot to do with inheritance and the fact that most leopard gecko morphs are recessive... so in order to get a visible morph, you need two copies of that gene to be present (when recessive). If you breed two different recessive morphs to each other, only one gene from each morph is being passed on, so neither is going to show up.
You need both parents to have similar genes, or be het for similar genes, to have the potential of getting a visible morph in the offspring.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

It all depends on the type of genetic trait you're referring to. The outcomes you're describing there, resulting in normals, would happen with "simple recessive" traits. So you'd need a pair that is het for the particular recessive trait in order to get offspring that visually express (or are homozygous) that particular trait.

Other traits, for example Mack Snow, work differently. This is a co-dominant trait, so you'll get some Mack Snow even if you breed it to a normal. Hope this makes some sense.

 

[Gregg M]

The three albino strains are incompatible.

Although the three strains will not produce albino offspring in the first generation when one strain is bred to a different strain, this does not mean they are "incompatible"... It is possible to get an animal that will be visually homozygous for both albino strains thus making them very compatible...

Just like you can have a leopard gecko that expresses the blizzard gene and the albino gene, you can get a leopard gecko that expresses the Tremper albino gene and lets say the Bell albino gene at the same time...

 

[KnECritters]

Gregg...how do you do that? I'm really curious. Right now I only have two albino strains in my collection, Tremper and Rain water.

 

[Gregg M]

I dont do it... I am not saying it should be done... I was just correcting the statement that the strains are not compatible... It is not advised to mix the albino strains at all...

 

[cassadaga]

Jodi Aherns hatched a gecko that he believed was both Rainwater and Tremper at the same time. I'm not sure if he ever proved it out.

 

[paulh]

When herpers say "incompatible", they mean that two mutant genes are not alleles. Alleles have the same location in the genome and are slightly different versions of the same gene. In other words, the Tremper albino mutant gene and the Bell albino mutant gene do not have the same location in the genome and are not slightly different versions of the same gene. It is perfectly possible to have a gecko that is both Tremper albino and Bell albino, just as it is possible to have a gecko that is both Tremper albino and patternless.

Try thinking of color production as an assembly line with two machines at each station. There is a John assembly line and a Mary assembly line. If at least one machine at each station in each assembly line is working as expected, the product rolls off the end of the assembly line with normal color. If both machines at one station in the John line break down, the product does not have any black pigment. We name that result Tremper albino. If both machines at a different station in the Mary assembly line break down, the product also does not have any black pigment. We name that result Bell albino.

One machine from each station in the John assembly line is given to the Billie assembly line. And one station from each station in the Mary line is given to the Billie assembly line. John gives all normal machines except one, the Tremper albino machine. Mary gives all normal machines except one, the Bell albino machine. John gave a normally working machine to pair with Mary's Bell albino machine. Mary gave a normally working machine to pair with John's Tremper albino machine.

As stated above, if at least one machine of the two at each station is working normally, the product is normally colored. So the product of the Billie assembly line is normally colored.

That is (in my opinion) a pretty good analogy to what happens when someone mates a Tremper albino gecko to a Bell albino gecko.

 

[nats]

When herpers say "incompatible", they mean that two mutant genes are not alleles. Alleles have the same location in the genome and are slightly different versions of the same gene. In other words, the Tremper albino mutant gene and the Bell albino mutant gene do not have the same location in the genome and are not slightly different versions of the same gene. It is perfectly possible to have a gecko that is both Tremper albino and Bell albino, just as it is possible to have a gecko that is both Tremper albino and patternless.

Try thinking of color production as an assembly line with two machines at each station. There is a John assembly line and a Mary assembly line. If at least one machine at each station in each assembly line is working as expected, the product rolls off the end of the assembly line with normal color. If both machines at one station in the John line break down, the product does not have any black pigment. We name that result Tremper albino. If both machines at a different station in the Mary assembly line break down, the product also does not have any black pigment. We name that result Bell albino.

One machine from each station in the John assembly line is given to the Billie assembly line. And one station from each station in the Mary line is given to the Billie assembly line. John gives all normal machines except one, the Tremper albino machine. Mary gives all normal machines except one, the Bell albino machine. John gave a normally working machine to pair with Mary's Bell albino machine. Mary gave a normally working machine to pair with John's Tremper albino machine.

As stated above, if at least one machine of the two at each station is working normally, the product is normally colored. So the product of the Billie assembly line is normally colored.

That is (in my opinion) a pretty good analogy to what happens when someone mates a Tremper albino gecko to a Bell albino gecko.

Hmmm, I read this twice thinking it would help me understand the
genetics, all I got was a headache.

 

[paulh]

The original poster wanted to know why crosses often go back to looking normal. The assembly line analogy is an attempt to explain why.

In an assembly line, pieces are added step by step in an orderly manner until the finished product rolls off the end of the line. Things also take place step by step in an orderly manner in biochemistry. A breakdown at one station in the assembly line affects the whole line. A biochemical breakdown can affect a whole animal.

According to the gene sequencers, humans have approximately 21,000 genes. Leopard geckos probably have a similar number of genes, within a few thousand. For simplicity, we ignore the genes that are working normally, but ignoring them doesn't make those genes vanish from the cells. They are still present, working in the background.

A Tremper albino leopard gecko lacks most if not all of its black coloration. This is caused by a pair of Tremper albino mutant genes which cannot produce the black coloration.

A Bell albino leopard gecko lacks most if not all of its black coloration. This is caused by a pair of Bell albino mutant genes which cannot produce the black coloration.

A Las Vegas albino leopard gecko lacks most if not all of its black coloration. This is caused by a pair of Las Vegas albino mutant genes which cannot produce the black coloration.

Breeding two Tremper albinos or two Bell albinos or two Las Vegas albinos produces albinos like the parents. Crossing any two of these gecko lines produces normal-looking babies. Why???

The simplest answer is that each line of geckos has something working right that is not working right in another line. The Tremper albino mutant gene can prevent black color from forming. The normal version of the Tremper albino gene (call it the Tremper normal gene) is present in Bell and Las Vegas albino geckos, but they lack black color. So the Tremper normal gene cannot make black coloration all by itself. The Bell normal gene cannot make black coloration all by itself. And the Las Vegas normal gene cannot make black coloration all by itself. Instead, the three normal genes work together, like stations in an assembly line, to produce black coloration in the gecko.

There used to be a saying that goes roughly, "For want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse the message was lost. For want of a message the battle was lost. And all for the want of a horseshoe nail." In terms of their effects, you might think of the Tremper albino mutant gene, the Bell albino mutant gene, and the Las Vegas albino mutant gene as horseshoe nails that have gone missing in different horses.