Some new hatchlings but not sure what to really call them.

[CSMGecko]

I had a couple babies hatch on Sat and the genetics has kind of got me stumped. This is still my first year so not exactly sure on all the possibilities. The Sire is a Bell Albino Snow and the Dam is CH,CT, Tang Albino het Raptor. Here are the hatchlings.

This little guy is a Snow Albino but not sure on the strain. 2 of 3 back bands are turning yellow after the first shed but they were solid white when hatched. This one has red eyes from the best I can tell but can't really see yet if solid or not.

This is the clutch mate from the one above. Looks pretty much the same except hatched with yellow bands and they have gotten brighter after the first shed. This little guy also has red eyes from what I can tell.

Please let me know what you think. Could I have just a Red Eyed Snow and a Red Eyed Tremper or Bell Albino on my hands or what. Thanks.

 

[Wandering Paddle]

You couldnt have produced this baby from the parents you listed. something is incorrect.

if you breed a bell and a het raptor (tremper) you dont get albinos because the strains are incompatible. either both parents are bell or tremper.

I dont understand why you would knowingly breed (what you thought) were two separate strains of albinos...

 

[Wandering Paddle]

also; the parents you listed cant produce red eyes...

 

[CSMGecko]

Well that is exactly from my knowledge what has been produced. I can't tell how red the eyes are since they are still so new of hatchlings. But I produced a little Bell Hatchling with orange eyes from the same sire and a dam that is a bell. I wasn't exactly certain what would come from mixing the 2 strains but as of right now that is my only male. I have checked with numerous others including other breeders and we are all in agreement that I have Bells, not Tremper Albinos except for my Tang female that I got from Geckos Etc. The others were bought prior to me expecting to become a breeder. They were purchased from Big Apple Herp and just as Albinos, so it could be a Tremper strain but then why do I have an orange eyed baby, which only happens from Bells. I bred these 2 parents as experimenting, the worst case scenario is that I have normals. My Tang will go into another Colony once I get one together. But my experimenting has left me stumped because I didn't think the babies would come out like this either. I wonder if it could be due to hidden genetics in the sire since didn't have a solid lineage behind him. I will see once they get older in a couple weeks. Maybe my wife and I just are not seeing the eyes properly but we both see red.

 

[Paco]

Looks like you either have a Set of Double het Bell and Tremper or the Female is Het bell As well as het Tremper.

The Male Could be het Raptor as well.

There are tons of Animals out there with unknown genetics so it's very possible.

It's hard to tell from the pics which strain you have.

 

[Wandering Paddle]

The only way the eyes can be red is if you have albino eclipses. From the parents you listed only the female caries the eclipse gene. raptor is tremper/eclipse.

If you got the female from Steve Sykes labeled as a Tremper then you know 100% that it is. However, the male can not be Bell because you produced albinos and albino strains dont mix. Therefore the male has to be Tremper

a tremper het raptor X mack snow bell produces the following:
Half of the offspring- Mack Snow 100% double het tremper and bell 50%het eclipse
Half of the offspring- Normal 100% double het tremper and bell 50% het eclipse

it gets sloppy when you mix albino strains. It is a bad idea and generally frowned upon...

 

[Wandering Paddle]

Paco, i doubt any of the geckos are double het for albino. The female is from Steve at geckosetc, so i dont think she is anything other than what Steve labeled her as.
The male is probably Tremper instead of Bell... if you could post a pictures of the males body and eyes we could help you out more.

 

[Olimpia]

Sorry to hijack the post, but while we're on the topic of incompatible albinos... what exactly does that mean? I can only find that they are incompatible but what happens if you do mix two types of albino? Is it like dwarfism, where if you get two separate dwarf genes the baby dies from the "double whammy?"

 

[Wandering Paddle]

Sorry to hijack the post, but while we're on the topic of incompatible albinos... what exactly does that mean? I can only find that they are incompatible but what happens if you do mix two types of albino? Is it like dwarfism, where if you get two separate dwarf genes the baby dies from the "double whammy?"

The babies will have the same survival rate, but the two strains dont mix. Like breeding a rainwater and tremper will never give you albinos. you will only get double hets... the problem with double hets is that you dont know which animals are het later on if you breed the double het babies. If we start mixing albino strains then we will start getting babies that are born albino but we dont know what strain... that would be bad.

 

[CSMGecko]

Here are the pics of the male. I also asked Steve and he is stumped too since it is a Tremper that he sold me. As for my male that is another question all together but Steve also helped me out with deciding that it probably is a Bell but we all could be wrong and could in fact be tremper. Here are pics.

I know it can get messy playing with the different strains but I am trying to figure out what strain for sure that the sire is. Also looking to see for hidden genes. I am trying to place all geckos into proper colonies for the future. This year is more of what happens if I do this type thing. My own curiousity. Nothing too bad could go wrong as well I mark them properly which is what I am trying to do now. Thanks for the help.

 

[Olimpia]

The babies will have the same survival rate, but the two strains dont mix. Like breeding a rainwater and tremper will never give you albinos. you will only get double hets... the problem with double hets is that you dont know which animals are het later on if you breed the double het babies. If we start mixing albino strains then we will start getting babies that are born albino but we dont know what strain... that would be bad.

Oh ok, people don't recomend it just because it's messy? But it's not like they die from the double albinism. Ok, thanks

 

[Wandering Paddle]

It seems to me that he has to be Tremper. So im going to say he is tremper.

I think the fact that he was originally labeled as a Bell can be attributed to his snow genetics. i have a female snow tremper that sometimes looks bell in the eyes but she is tremper. But the male has 100% been proven tremper. (which isnt to say he is 100% not bell)

 

[crotaphytidae]

Looks a lot like tremper to me.

 

[froggz]

I have to agree, he looks tremper.

 

[CSMGecko]

Ok, so both mine that I got from Big Apple Herp must be tremper then because they also produced an albino baby. I have pics posted of all my breeders on my website and will be posting weekly updated pics. Thanks for the help everyone. It is def a mystery what I have on my hands and only time will tell as the hatchlings get a little older. I just wish I knew more about this prior to getting mine from Big Apple Herp, so I could have asked questions about the lineage to know for sure. Is there a way to have a tremper male het for bell that could technically be bred with both lines and produce albino babies?

 

[Wandering Paddle]

yes, a tremper albino het bell could make bell babies. that is the problem with breeding opposing albino strains... you dont know what you get and then you dont know what you are selling.

im almost positive big apple only produces trempers. i used to go threw them for mealworms but got sick of their inconsistencies in shipping.

 

[CSMGecko]

Ok Thanks. This has been a huge help in trying to figure out everything. I guess I have to just wait until they age a little bit to see what their eyes do. But I have a Bell Sunglow Enigma on the way, so I hope they turn out to be Bells. I want to start breeding Bells above all else, which would be hard with a Tremper Male.

 

[Wandering Paddle]

....looks like you are going to need to buy a Bell male because i think it is going to be impossible for you to produce one otherwise

 

[CSMGecko]

I agree. I will have to put her off to the side for a little while.

 

[paulnj]

Everyone is reading way too far into this. I think that is a tremper male bred to a het raptor that made a tremper. If it is eclipse eyed, then it's a BANDED "Raptor", but tremper hatchlings have very bright red eyes usually.