Temperature Fluctuations in Incubator

[tlbowling]

Im a little confused. When incubating gecko eggs, a chosen temperature is set, and it's not supposed to vary at all or else deformities may result. These poor geckos are being born with eyelid deformities, or no eye lids at all, or any other malformation really, and people blame temperature fluctuations (even by 1 degree). But I cant see how such minute temp. fluctuations can cause such deformities, doesnt the temperature fluctuate in nature? Are these deformities really from temp. fluctuations? Or are they possibly from all the inbreeding that goes on with our morphed geckos?:main_huh:

 

[acpart]

I think the situation is complicated. I'm having thoughts about temperature fluctuations in incubation and am holding out on posting about it until my last 4 eggs hatch so I havea complete data. One of my thoughts at the moment is that it may not matter as much about the actual temperature fluctuation (within reason, of course) as the speed at which the temperature fluctuates --so temp spikes may be more of a problem. This is not a scientific conclusion but a deduction based on my observations of my situation. Stay tuned for more info in about 3 weeks, after the last egg hatches.

Aliza

 

[M_surinamensis]

Im a little confused. When incubating gecko eggs, a chosen temperature is set, and it's not supposed to vary at all or else deformities may result. These poor geckos are being born with eyelid deformities, or no eye lids at all, or any other malformation really, and people blame temperature fluctuations (even by 1 degree).

I think the "people blame" part is important there. It is subtly different from "it was proven."

But I cant see how such minute temp. fluctuations can cause such deformities, doesnt the temperature fluctuate in nature?

It does.

Although it is important to note that in a species that is small, breeds young and is as prolific as geckos- most eggs in the wild never make it to the point where the animal inside them enters the breeding pool. Deformed individuals are definitely at a disadvantage, the severity of which varies based on the severity of the deformity. They end up being the slow ones, the blind ones, the clumsy ones and they get killed and eaten. It is not that deformities don't happen in the wild, it is that the rest of the local ecology tends to eliminate them in fairly short order.

Are these deformities really from temp. fluctuations?

Some of them. Probably not nearly as many as are labeled that way. Outside of temperature fluctuations there are other environmental factors at work there, the nutrient content of the yolk can vary based on the diet and health of the mother and the cells can simply divide at the wrong time or in the wrong direction while they are forming.

Or are they possibly from all the inbreeding that goes on with our morphed geckos?

Ehh...

Inbreeding by itself does not cause anything except an exponential reinforcement of the genetic traits that are already present in the limited gene pool. We just tend to be far more aware of visible negative effects when they crop up, but the inbreeding did not cause them, it simply allowed them to be displayed.

In theory if there were no negative traits anywhere in the genetics of the initial stock animals, you could inbreed forever and it would never produce a problem animal. Problem is that perfect stock is improbable and the transmission of traits which aren't displayed is difficult to predict when they start as unknown qualities.

I definitely think that there are too many people breeding leopard geckos who do not use good selection and pairing practices and who do not understand the responsibilities of genetic management, but blaming inbreeding by itself is a bit too simple to be accurate.

One of my thoughts at the moment is that it may not matter as much about the actual temperature fluctuation (within reason, of course) as the speed at which the temperature fluctuates --so temp spikes may be more of a problem. This is not a scientific conclusion but a deduction based on my observations of my situation.

They are good observations and they are backed by known biology. You're quite safe in phrasing your thoughts on the subject as facts.

it is actually something that has been manipulated in the past by frauds. "Pastel" red eared sliders were originally produced using a timed application of intense heat during the time when pigment production and sequestering cells are developing in the turtle. This would disrupt the replication of the pigment cells and the result, when it worked, was a very light colored turtle (with normal turtle genetics for color, thus the fraud).

Of course since it was mostly being done by scumbags with a hair dryer and they didn't care if they killed dozens and even hundreds of eggs or created truly malformed hatchlings in the process because the markup on the pastel colors was so high at the time it is not particularly advisable to follow their example.

A much less intense and far safer example of the same would be the Tremper Incubation Method.

Those two deal with pigment cells- but when the temperature changes happen during the development of other parts of the body, other types of tissue- the anomalies develop there instead.