This sucks even more ... graphic pictures warning!!

[Grinning Geckos]

Sorry, I didn't know if I should put this here, or in the genetics forum. Also, sorry about the pictures. I'm not trying to be gross....just trying learn what I can from them.

Well, the clutchmate to the one I had put down yesterday pipped and then died in the egg. I opened the egg to see what went on. With this one, it looks like some internal organ formed on the outside. It also has missing eyelids and the skull deformity.

I did notice something that makes me wonder is the problem is genetic. Both of them have an egg-shaped head. The jaw and neck areas are almost fused together, and the snout looks short. The first one has a slight overbite and the shape of the upper jaw skewed to one side...probably from the malformed eye.

BUT (to get to my point) I notice both of them have the same head markings. The both have a single white line that runs from the tip of the nose straight back to between the eyes. I know most of the time, marking are just markings. However, the healthy sibling has no such marking.

I just find it odd that they would have the same head deformity and markings...it doesn't seem like something that would be congenital. Am I grasping at straws here??

The first 2 photos are the first hatchling, the next two are of the one that died today, and the final photo is the healthy sibling when it first hatched.

 

[brandy101010]

Wow shanti! Thats a shame! They were pretty little guys! Except the deformities of course. I have no clue if the marking has anything to do with it but Maybe if everyone keeps records of there deformed hatchlings it can eventually be figured out.

Sorry for your loss!

 

[Grinning Geckos]

Yea....that second hatchling looks like it would have been killer. I really wish I knew what caused the problems in both of those geckos. If it's genetic, I shouldn't breed that pair again (which would SUCK). If it's supplements, I can fix that easily. Heat....get a better incubator and thermostat....and move outta this apartment! And if it's congenital, there's really nothing I can do, but at least I would know.

 

[gko reptiles]

WOW. Both of the hatchlings that died are/were beautiful! I'm so sorry that you lost them. As for the head markings, I've never seen a leo/hatchling with that wierd head stripe either?! You're right markings are ususally just markings, but maybe this trait is connected to the markings somehow? I'm going to do a little research of my own; I'll post anything that I can find...

 

[brandy101010]

I guess there really is no sure way to know if it is genitic or not but my blind hatchling looked alot like those. and all the others hatched out fine except one that died because it never absorbed its yoke sack. I had a lot of problems with my incubator spiking so I just atributed it to that. I'll check out my pics and see if she had the any strange markings.

 

[brandy101010]

I don't see the nose marking but she does have alot of white around the nose.

 

[Grinning Geckos]

I have been having heat problems due to the weather - otherwise the temps have been stable. Since yesterday I've been watching the min/max thermometer like a hawk to see just how large of a swing I'm getting.

I remember that baby of your Brandy...the eyes do look a lot like the eye on the first hatchling.

 

[KelliH]

Shanti-

I'm so sorry :-(
From my experience, I do not feel this is genetic. I strongly feel it is due to a supplementation issue in the mom. I had a similar problem in the 2003-2004 season, and it was across the board (not just one particular line or group). It was heartbreaking, probably 15-20% of my production that season had eyelid and other deformities. I talked to lots of other experienced gecko breeders in Daytona that year, and almost all of them told me they thought it was due to a LACK of Vitamin A being supplemented to the females. So I switched around some things supplementwise, and only had a couple of the deformities very early in the season last year, and NONE this year.

I think we have to supplement differently when we feed mealworms vs when we feed crickets. Just my opinion.

 

[Grinning Geckos]

Hmmmm....I've been trying not to use the herptivite too much because I was trying to avoid over supplemention. It has beta-carotine as the source of vitamin A. Perhaps I'm being too careful, and should use it more often....especially with the mealies. I have a feeling that if I can use more roaches with my breeding females, it will help as well.

The mom to these two geckos has stopped producing for the season. Next season I'll have to try a different supplement schedule and see if that makes a difference. I really hope that this will be the limit of the deformities, but if it is from the supplement (or lack of it), I may be seeing more.

I have two more girls that are still laying...it may be too little too late, but I can work on changing their supplement right now. So far, all deformities are from just the one pair....but I have more eggs due to hatch any time now. Crossing fingers!!

 

[LadyGecko]

I'm so sorry Shanti
I wish you the best of luck with your remaining eggs and I hope that it is a supplement issue rather than a genetic one
Sandy

 

[leopardgecko95]

Awww Shanti I am soory I am also soory for the geckos.

 

[Sarah H]

awww.....that really does stink. Hopefully that won't happen again. That white stripe on the nose looks neat I hope it isn't related to deformities.
I had my first baby die in the egg before hatching this week. I didn't have the stomach to take it all they way out of the egg. I only opened it enough to know it was gone.
Good luck with the rest of your eggs.