Too much calcium?

[liljenn]

I know there have been several questions about "bubbles" behind the front legs and I've heard from other breeders and my vet that it is perfectly healthy. Probably a fat or calcium deposit. However ALL (9) of my leos have them now. It is more noticable on the females. Here is my question, could it be that they are getting too much calcium or something?

6 months ago, I switched to Alan Repashy's Leopard Gecko dust for supplement from Rep-cal products. Since then all of my leos have now developed this, including my newest one I got in October. I am thinking of switching back. Granted all of my leos are a very healthy size (not too fat but have big, fat tails) and eat extremely well... even in the winter months.

Here is a pic of one of my females. Any thoughts from anyone?

 

[vctkiller]

To me it just shows that they are very healthy.

 

[Gregg M]

I dont see that as a sign of being healthy... To me it is just a sign that your leo is getting more calcium than it can process... When I see this in my leos, I cut back the calcium intake... It is possible to over calcify a reptile... Look up hypercalcification...

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

From my understanding vitamin d3 is suppose to help with Cal being broken down into the system. Could this be due to not having enough D3 to help the lizard break down and use the cal? i could be very wrong if so please correct me.

 

[Gregg M]

From my understanding vitamin d3 is suppose to help with Cal being broken down into the system. Could this be due to not having enough D3 to help the lizard break down and use the cal? i could be very wrong if so please correct me.

It is not a D3 issue... If the calcium got as far as being stored, it had been processed but not absorbed... I should have worded my last post better...

 

[liljenn]

Thanks, Gregg... That was my assumption. I used to work for a vitamin shop (for people) and it would seem logical to me that if too much is being stored like that, it is simply too much intake. I will be switching my product and lowering the supplementing until it is gone. Once my females begin to lay, they will be using these reserves anyway. Vitamin D3 is not an issue either, they are getting a well balanced supplementation, however, it seems too much.

 

[LeapinLizards]

Jenn, I too was using the Repashy Calcium Plus, and noticed most of my geckos developed the "armpit pockets". I have now switched back to Rep-Cal, and even in the short time I stopped using the Repashy fomula I have noticed a slight decrease in the pockets. At this point of course I cannot tell whether it is good, bad, or simply inconsequential, but like yourself I am not sure I am comfortable with ALL of my geckos exhibiting the pockets.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

It's ok Gregg that's why i put it out there. i had an idea, didn't know if it was good or not but an idea none the less. and i'm actually happy you pointed out my error so now i know.

 

[liljenn]

Very interesting, Heather! I was wondering about others with similar cases with that supplement. Possibly over supplementing due to being all-in-one. It even says on the bottle to do it at EVERY feeding, however, I was just doing it once per week with my juvies & adults but every-other feeding with my hatchlings (0-6mos). I am now going back to Rep-cal.

 

[LeapinLizards]

Jenn, I was only putting it in the mealie dish...not even bothering to dust the roaches or crickets. I think I am just more comfortable with Rep-Cal because I can control the amount of everything separately, especially during breeding season, and with hatchlings/juveniles.

 

[Gregg M]

I do not dust any feeders with calcium for the most part... I offer them pure calcium in a dish and they take the calcium in as they need it... Once or twice a month I will dust feeders with Calcium with D3... I use a vitamin supplement once a week without calcium or D3...

 

[Lady_Kiya]

Wow.. that is interesting..

 

[ccb geckos]

I was always under the impression that the "bubbles" were stored up fats and proteins. My girlies will fatten up their "bubbles" while not breeding, but once they start for the season, the bubbles greatly shrink. If it is calcium, then It could also be used up in the shelling phases. I don't know, but all of them are quite healthy.:main_yes:

 

[Gregg M]

I was always under the impression that the "bubbles" were stored up fats and proteins. My girlies will fatten up their "bubbles" while not breeding, but once they start for the season, the bubbles greatly shrink. If it is calcium, then It could also be used up in the shelling phases. I don't know, but all of them are quite healthy.:main_yes:

No one is saying it is not healthy... All I was saying is that it is not a sign of good health... Again, it is just a sign that your leo is taking in more calcium than it can absorb... I highly doubt that in the wild, leos retain enough calcium to cause these "bubbles" to emerge...

Also, if I remember correctly, Pat Kline had this tested and found that it was not just calcium, but fat bodies as well... I honestly think that there is not enough study in the area to say what it is exactly or if they are even supposed to be there in healthy leos... I personally think when these are seen, the calcium intake should be cut down for a while untile the "bubbles" receed a bit... Too much is never a good thing in my opinion... These normally healthy vitamins/minerals can be quite toxic in high doses...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I dont see that as a sign of being healthy... To me it is just a sign that your leo is getting more calcium than it can process...

I agree. We used to think these pockets were fat, and it meant that a female was healthy enough to breed. Now we know that it is actually calcium-rich, fatty lymphatic fluid. Although I doubt it would cause hyper-calcemia (high blood calcium), it's still not optimum.

Another thing to consider is, that although most of us do not brumate our leos during Winter, all throughout the Fall and early Winter they should be packing on the grams and fat deposits for their Winter shut-down. Obese geckos are not necessarily healthy, but we want our girls especially to have a good amount of fat and calcium reserves for the upcoming breeding and eggin season.

 

[liljenn]

Thank you everyone for your input and advise. I really appreciate all the knowledge that is shared on this site. Although I do try to read many books and such, it is helpful to hear what is currently really being experienced out there. Besides, new things occur all the time and it takes a while before it gets put into a publication, so sharing experience help us all to keep our animals healthy.

 

[ccb geckos]

No one is saying it is not healthy... All I was saying is that it is not a sign of good health... Again, it is just a sign that your leo is taking in more calcium than it can absorb... I highly doubt that in the wild, leos retain enough calcium to cause these "bubbles" to emerge...

I am sorry if my post came off in any manor than simply stating what my prior understanding was, not trying to step on other peoples words. I agree that in the wild, they would not accumulate the build up though. Thanks for the great conversations everyone