vets vs REPTILE vets

[rickmoss95]

i am seeing ALOT of people on this and other forums saying, "my vet said..." and it is absolute CRAP!!!! most regular vets DONT know crap about reptiles! so if you are taking your herps to a regular vet...be cautious of what they are telling you, please! most vets only want your money anyways! so if it is a non reptile specialist vet, dont even bother taking it unless there is no way around it and you cant find a specialist vet! i have been keeping and breeding reptiles for 23+ years and have NEVER taken any of my animals to ANY vet...the only thing i have used vets for is fecal exams because i cant do this myself. i also have never lost an animal to sickness or parasites...i would reccomend asking people who have been keeping reptiles for a long time, because there is USUALLY a way to help your scaley friends out without taking them to a mamal vet. i am NOT saying dont take your herps to a vet if they need it...just try really hard to find a qualified REPTILE VET...or speak to an expert keeper who will probably be able to help you. most herp specialized vets may cost a little more than a non herp vet, but you will most likely be wasting your money anyway taking your herp to a normal vet. and another HUGE factor is buying your animals from a reputable breeder and not a petstore to begin with, because a healthy animal does not need a vet. most people will buy from a store to save a few bucks, and end up spending more money in the long run on vets and meds and a bunch of other crap that they could avoided by spending the ten extra bucks from a breeder.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Unless a person is very experienced in keeping and dealing with various reptile health issues, a lot of conditions warrant a trip to the vet. Selection of a vet is very important, and they are in business to make money helping animals. They also are in competition with each other, and will often see an animal they are not experienced in diagnosing and treating. They will rarely refer a potential client to a more qualified vet in the area, even if it's right down the street. I could go on.... take a look at this article about reptile vets http://www.geckotime.com/taking-your-gecko-to-the-vet-interview-with-dr-ivan-alfonso/

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I understand what you are saying. Before I found my HERP VET, I was subject to veterinarians that didn't even know that leopard geckos only laid two egg per clutch and ate their skin sheds! The BEST think you can do to find a vet that is at least trained in reptile veterinary medicine is go to the ARAV (Association of Reptilian and Amphibian Veterinarians) website to see if your vet is a registered herp vet.

 

[JordanAng420]

most vets only want your money anyways!.

EXCUSE me?

Please explain your statement further.

I know a veterinarian who's been a veterinarian for 18 years, lives in a one bedroom apartment, and he drives a 99 Toyota Corrola.

So that statement REALLY offends me.

 

[M_surinamensis]

So that statement REALLY offends me.

You probably don't want to go through that guy's post history then. He's been averaging fifteen posts per day for the last week, all of them pretty much along those same lines. Although once in awhile he switches targets in order to lay down some other inaccurate, myopic little tidbit of his personal prejudice. Quite a few of them in the health and medication subforum too, which is really unfortunate.

Kind of a shame that "being flat out wrong" or "misinforming the public" isn't justification for reporting posts.

 

[Taquiq]

You probably don't want to go through that guy's post history then. He's been averaging fifteen posts per day for the last week, all of them pretty much along those same lines. Although once in awhile he switches targets in order to lay down some other inaccurate, myopic little tidbit of his personal prejudice. Quite a few of them in the health and medication subforum too, which is really unfortunate.

Kind of a shame that "being flat out wrong" or "misinforming the public" isn't justification for reporting posts.

He also says he's kept reptiles for over 23 years.

 

[Quantumhigh]

I sure wish we had a decent herp vet in las vegas, NV. I have to agree that in my personal experiences here in las vegas after seeing several vets that were supposed to be herp specialist I am very disappointed with my experiences. First one was about 8yrs. ago when I had a beautiful collared lizard that got URI threw brumation. The vet prescribed I believe it was baytil injections for a week. The injections were premeasured, well half of them were clogged. After calling the vet and telling him I need new needles I had to setup another paid visit for him to tell me 'oh even if why all didn't work it was a strong med and you wont be needing the other half of the injections’. Over the next week the signs came right back and she passed away less then a week after my last visit. Second time a bad experience different vet. I have gotten a Leo that had some parasites, clearly visible by eye. Small whitest worms (round worms) after telling the vet and several fecals I paid for I was able to treat him. 2 months after treatment I visually see more parasites in his fecal, I save it for exam and they tell me he is clear of parasite despite me telling them I have clearly seen worms alive and moving in the fecal I had just paided to be tested. I have since been very disappointed with every vet here in las vegas, nv. I am not saying other peoples vets are not good or trying to offend honest hard working vets who many be just barely making it I totally respect them to the fullest. Just be very wary and research the vet you choose carefully there is always a chance they might not be that honest. Look at medical doctors treating humans most of them are very honest and good but there are plenty of them that have there own interest ahead of your own. The mind set why cure when you can treat and have a repeat customer! Sad but very true.

 

[sunshinegeckos]

It is very hard to find a vet that has extensive experience with reptiles. Most will see your reptile but not really know much about it. Which is a shame. I found a great reptile vet thankfully. I got the recommendation from the breeder who I bought my geckos from.

 

[rickmoss95]

You probably don't want to go through that guy's post history then. He's been averaging fifteen posts per day for the last week, all of them pretty much along those same lines. Although once in awhile he switches targets in order to lay down some other inaccurate, myopic little tidbit of his personal prejudice. Quite a few of them in the health and medication subforum too, which is really unfortunate.

Kind of a shame that "being flat out wrong" or "misinforming the public" isn't justification for reporting posts.

if i have posted anything that was "being flat out wrong" or "misinforming the public" ...please enlighten me! i am curious to see what you mean.

 

[rickmoss95]

He also says he's kept reptiles for over 23 years.

what makes you think otherwise taquiq? do me the same...enlighten me, please...im curious. is that an impossible feat in your mind, or what. do you think i am lying??? for real, why would i make that up..in your mind anyways???

 

[rickmoss95]

EXCUSE me?

Please explain your statement further.

I know a veterinarian who's been a veterinarian for 18 years, lives in a one bedroom apartment, and he drives a 99 Toyota Corrola.

So that statement REALLY offends me.

i apollogize, i should have worded that a little different. the vets i have had some herp friends go to, only wanted their money...there are alot of good vets out there, i just dont think most mammal vets have any buisiness treating reptiles! that is all i meant by my post.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

i apollogize, i should have worded that a little different. the vets i have had some herp friends go to, only wanted their money...there are alot of good vets out there, i just dont think most mammal vets have any buisiness treating reptiles! that is all i meant by my post.

Rick, unfortunately there is not enough money to be made for a vet to be only a reptile vet, for them to make any kind of decent living for all the money it cost to get their degree. If they don't have dog and cat clients they're out of business. I definitely agree that many, even most are not qualified to treat herps. In a perfect world, reptile owners would seek referrals from others in the hobby. The better general practice (for lack of a better word) vets will consult with other vets they know have extensive reptile experience. The problem is, when people get in a situation when they have to have a vet yesterday and end up going to the first one that can see them today. Lack of proper planning. Folks are glad to share their good vet with others when asked.

 

[JordanAng420]

Most of the time (from my experience, anyway) the doctors aren't the ones who make the prices, and the doctors aren't the ones who are control what is charged for and what isn't. If the doctor doesn't own the practice, the doctor is an employee, just like me. The PRACTICE MANAGER/OWNER is the one you should be complaining to if you have a problem or complaint about prices.

Your veterinarian has a LEGAL responsibility to offer you all the diagnostic procedures relating to your animals problem...wouldn't you be upset if you found out there was something more that could have been done, but it wasn't offered to you?

So that's where the misunderstanding about "only wanting money" comes from. Yes, we actually do care, and that's why we want to offer everything possible to you. That's what good medicine is all about. It's up to YOU if you want to take our advice or not.

 

[M_surinamensis]

The PRACTICE MANAGER/OWNER is the one you should be complaining to if you have a problem or complaint about prices.

Even there though... they aren't setting prices arbitrarily. Running a veterinary practices of any sort incurs a pretty high overhead and a substantial investment. There's the ongoing cost of the physical location, there's quite a lot of insurance, there are mandatory security measures which need to be legally taken if there are certain controlled substances on the premises, there are electric and water bills, there is a need for equipment, there's an ongoing cost for consumable equipment like gloves and syringes and hospital grade antibacterial and virucide cleaners, there are license and inspection fees and there's an entire staff of employees who need to be paid, several (at least) of which will have an educational background and skillset that prompts a reasonable salary in excess of minimum wage.

Given everything that goes into and stands behind a veterinary visit... I'm frankly surprised prices aren't higher more often.

If anything, I'd guess employee salaries are probably the item which gets skimped on, because the vets (and other staff) are the opposite of greedy and are willing to do their work even when underpaid. Given the level of education required for the medical positions, it's hardly a career choice for those who's primary goal is to get rich. Six to eight years of school could have been spent in a far more profitable major if that was the reason they were doing what they do. They average between about $40,000-65,000 per year coming out of school, depending on specialty and the type of practice. They could have skipped the school and become a district manager for WalMart and make the same kind of money, if that was all that mattered.

Veterinarians, as a group, do what they do because they like animals. I'm sure there are some statistical outliers who don't fit that statement, but they're rare. Veterinary fees are, again as a generalization, reasonable considering the actual work and the kind of costs incurred to operate that sort of business. It stinks to be the owner of an animal that needs more expensive care, but the cost isn't some arbitrary number that's been inflated by greed. It's just what it costs to make it possible.

 

[JordanAng420]

I've said it before, and i'll say it again Seamus....you are amazing.

Very well said.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I'm a bit on the fence about the subject of what veterinarians do or do not know too...

To start it off, I'd like to say that in my experience, most vets I have interacted with are upfront and honest about what they feel they are capable of diagnosing or treating. I've only run into one exception to that, out of a couple dozen vets I've gotten to know well enough to say this about. It's anecdotal, so it's no more valid or invalid than the experiences of others, but I'd question some of the statements that have been made about "most vets" or "many vets" seeing and treating animals they're broadly unfamiliar with. I'm sure it happens, but my experiences are that it's a very small minority. I suspect it is much more common for them to simply tell a pet owner that they do not deal with ________, and if possible, recommend someone that might.

Taxonomy is, in some respects, subjective. There are different and sometimes conflicting methodologies and there's some debate about what kind or how significant a difference has to be before it is meaningful. There are somewhere between about seven and a half thousand and nine thousand species of reptile. There are somewhere between about five and six thousand species of amphibian. About nine thousand birds, four thousand species of mammal, twenty five thousand to thirty thousand species of fish... and then there are the invertebrates.

We keep hundreds, even thousands of these species as pets.

The way pet owners approach pet information is different than the way veterinarians and other scientists approach information about those same animals. A pet owner focuses on details specific to the kind of pet they own, they go out of their way to learn things about the exact diet and habitat, the exact behaviors of the animal they keep. Veterinarians who deal with "exotics" (animals less commonly kept as pets, not dogs, cats and farm animals) approach it from the other direction. They identify information that is as broadly applicable as possible and then start narrowing down the specifics. So a veterinarian may not know exactly what percentage of a specific species of tortoises diet should be composed of a specific vegetable and may not have memorized the different scale counts on subspecies of boa constrictor... but they do know extremely relevant things, like the correct proportions of medicine and saline to mix together for injectable medications based on reptile physiology and the way a certain drug affects reptile (all reptile) kidney function and the correct doses by weight... they know how to test for and identify infectious agents and they know how to figure out exactly what is present in a fecal sample.

They build their knowledge from the ground up, using the biggest blocks of information that are applicable. Many pet owners take a drastically different approach, using little irregular piece of information that are tailored to their personal interests.

Veterinarians, to do what they do, need those big pieces of information that are broadly applicable to how reptile health works. When taking a reptile or amphibian to one for diagnosis and treatment, they should be judged on that criteria. Not based on how many details they may have memorized about each of the several thousand species that might come through their door.

Talk to them, if you have concerns. Fill in information for them, if you really know something they don't that you think matters. The first time I took my first viper boa to my vet, the doctor had never seen one before. Didn't know what they were. I told him that they're usually wild caught, I told him that they eat a lot of lizards and frogs, I told him they have high humidity requirements and spend a lot of time buried or partially buried in the substrate, I told him they came from New Guinea. Together, using his medical knowledge and my knowledge of the species, he was able to identify a number of specific parasites that were likely to be present and he was able to make inferences about respiratory function which allowed him to identify a mild bacterial infection while it was still easily treatable. He knew everything he needed to know to provide veterinary treatment, I just assisted him in narrowing down the details.

I'm pretty decent at this herpetology stuff and there are still thousands and thousands of species I know very little about. Absolutely nothing about in many cases, except those generalizations that come along with being a reptile, or a lizard or a colubrid or what have you. If I don't know it all (not even close... yet, I'm working on it) then it's just unfair of me to demand that someone else know everything I do plus all the medical stuff that I don't. Sometimes... not always, but sometimes... some of the standards pet owners apply to their vets are sort of off. Like they pick the wrong things as expectations. "I took my leopard gecko to the vet and he asked me if it was an albino, just because it's all white. I was like 'No, stupid, it's a Mack Snow Murphy Patternless Super Blizzard Whiteout Electric Giant Chalky Mayonnaise Blanco... duh! You're a terrible vet."

 

[Russ S]

I don't know it all

Saving this quote, completely out of context, in case I need it at a later date.

 

[Thorgecko707]

Is there a chalky mayonnaise morph?!

 

[Quantumhigh]

Good clear example of 'My vet said this...' and so wrong. It is way more common then those who work in the veterinarian field would like to admit. Bottom line props to those good vets and shame on the uneducated ones making poor medical/husbandry advice.
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=75761