What makes a GIANT??

[Pinky81]

So could you guys tell me what makes a Giant a Giant? Is it length...is it weight? What is a why to know....Im kinda wondering if Clyde is a Giant...he weighs in at 90grams and is 10months old. And nose tip to tail tip he is 9in. Not at all fat just solid.

Here are a few pics from today of my big boy!

 

[KevinS]

Weight was given as the criteria, but my personal opinion is that length should be the deciding factor. A fat normally sized gecko can weigh within the ranges given for giants so anyone can overfeed and technically their gecko could meet the definition of a giant (attaining a certain weight within its first year). There's nothing you can do to make a gecko longer though, so I think someone needs to come up with a cutoff value using that criteria. There's also the subjective cues like the length of the tail and lanky build. Looking at the pictures of yours, I'd say it does look like a giant based on the tail.

 

[Jordan]

Its not weight or length.

Its genetics.

To be a giant or super giant it must contain the co dominant giant gene.
The gene is what makes it longer and bigger.

When food and eating makes a gecko bigger, its not a Giant its just a big gecko.
Giant is the name of a morph, not a description.
So your gecko may be giant (in size), but if it doesn't contain any giant gene's then its not a Giant (in morph).

 

[KevinS]

Its not weight or length.

Its genetics.

Breeding a giant to a normal is supposed to give half giants and half normals. How do you identify which offspring have the giant genetics without using weight or length?

 

[fuzzylogix]

Breeding a giant to a normal is supposed to give half giants and half normals. How do you identify which offspring have the giant genetics without using weight or length?

that's no entirely true as the Giant gene is co-dom. the offspring would be possible giants. if you did hatch out a baby from that pairing and it was extremely large, then you could call it a giant. but too many people claim they have Giants when they just have large geckos. without knowing for sure that the offspring comes from a true Giant line, they shouldn't be named as such. if clyde was hatched from a Giant x Giant or even a Giant x Normal, then yeah, there is a possibility he would be a giant. without knowing the genetic makeup of the parents though, it's just a large gecko.

 

[im faster]

So given a gecko without any proir knowledge there is no way to tell if its a Giant or just a large normal?

 

[fuzzylogix]

without knowing the parents, then no. now IMO, if you bred that gecko to another normal and one of the hatchlings was 120 grams and 12 inches long after a year, then yeah, lol, might have a giant.

 

[M_surinamensis]

An apt demonstration of the difficulties sometimes generated when naming a specific genotype with an adjective.

 

[fuzzylogix]

An apt demonstration of the difficulties sometimes generated when naming a specific genotype with an adjective.

haha, exactly

 

[im faster]

how about the differnce between a giant and super giant

 

[Jordan]

An apt demonstration of the difficulties sometimes generated when naming a specific genotype with an adjective.

Great point well made. I was trying to get that over, but you put it better lol.


to answer the post above:
As the gene is co-dom Super Giant is thought to be the homozygous version and Giant the heterozygous.
Like mack snow being het, and super snow being homo.

 

[Pinky81]

Thank you very much Shawn, Jordan, and M_surinamensis!! After reading the Galaxy link and what you all have said here Im starting to understand more about the confusion with the names/titles given to morphs.

I do not know the specific genetics of Clyde...I just look at him and my female and also a friends leo and there is a huge difference in size. Clyde is just a big solid boy! i'll have to let you know if any of his offspring live up to 120g LOL

Thanks guys great explanations!

 

[KevinS]

So given a gecko without any proir knowledge there is no way to tell if its a Giant or just a large normal?

without knowing the parents, then no.

If that's the case, how are giants a morph and not just a particular bloodline? You can look at a bell albino and know what morph it is without seeing the parents. Same thing with an eclipse. If there's no way to tell a giant from a non-giant without knowing its parents are giants, then apparently non-giants can get just as big as giants. If that's the case, how were giants ever singled out as a morph to begin with? I think if this really is a morph, it should be possible to identify individuals based on physical characteristics without any information on their ancestry.

 

[kkigs]

The way to determine if you have a Giant or not is to breed it!!! Preferably to a known Giant or Super Giant. You WILL know if you have a Giant or Super Giant after a few months, as the babies grow up. Giants are longer and generally bigger than non-giants. I have Giants that hatched at the end of July that are MUCH bigger than comparable non-giants that are a month or two older. Once you see them side by side, they are pretty obvious. Now I also have a really big Bell Albino male that is almost 100 grams, but is also almost 2 years old; he looks like a Giant, but is about the same length as my male Giants that are only in their first year. Giant genetics are no more complex than other morphs; DesignerGeckos, Leopardgecko.com and VMSHerp all have breakdowns. The rules of inheritance apply just like any other recessive or co-dominant trait. The big problem is, size is somewhat subjective, and I don't know how reliable it can by itself without sufficient history of the parents or by breeding results.

One more point as to the validity of the morph in and of itself; go look at Designergeckos.com, Leopardgecko.com or Geckosetc.com, and compare their sizes and ages to those of the non-giants. There is considerable difference.

 

[Taquiq]

It would be easier to determine a Giant if you breed it to a Non Giant. Then you wouldn't be confused with the passing of genes between the other Giant if you breed Giant to Giant. Giant x Normal= 50% Giant, 50% Normal

 

[kkigs]

It would be easier to determine a Giant if you breed it to a Non Giant. Then you wouldn't be confused with the passing of genes between the other Giant if you breed Giant to Giant. Giant x Normal= 50% Giant, 50% Normal

Very good point. I meant to include that as well, but my long-winded post was, well... long-winded!

 

[Jordan]

Another point that determines a giant is the rate they grow. They are thought to grow a lot quicker, and reach sort of general adult size a lot quicker.

I suppose that is just sort of an extension of whats been said though. If they are bigger than a non-giant at the same age, it just sort of gives the impression they are growing quicker, but i believe it is considered a factor when identifying giants.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

Is there really a "gene" that indicates a giant or not? No I don't believe so. I'm a firm believer that big gecko x big gecko gets you big geckos.

 

[Jordan]

I hear what your saying but by that, even these 'Big gecko's' would grow at the same rate.

Say if we call 75g the average adult weight...
and the average time to reach this weight is 1 year (for ease)

a normal sized gecko would take a year to reach 75g
a 'big gecko' would take a year to reach 75g, but then continue to grow... to what classifies as sizes of a 'big gecko'

a genetic giant, would reach 75g in a lot less time, say 8 months or so...

I know what your saying and i almost agree to be honest...

But by your argument, is there a gene for dwarfs, or are they just small gecko x small gecko. (okay maybe not quite the same thing but you get my point... hopefully)

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Without knowing the genetics or growth pattern from hatching, IMO a test breed would need to be done to confirm. So a bigger gecko appears, hmmm, lets breed it to another big gecko and see if they produce a big baby. For argument's sake, say they do. Line breeding begins. Giants and Super Giants are making a splash. People take notice and they begin to make way to the market. BUT what happened to all the by-products of these pairings that were sold off in wholesale groups? I believe a lot of folks bought these geckos in pet shops with no way to know the genetics behind the "normals". So if someone breeds I think it's possible to have some bigger babies. However to classify an unknown big gecko as a giant is less than honest. If someone suspects they may have one, it should be able to be proven, and is their responsibility to do so. Just my opinion.