Whats With All the Williamsi?

[reptinut]

I've noticed lately the market is being flooded with wild caught Electric Blue Day Geckos (Lygodactylus williamsi). Whats the deal? Are they being smuggled or is Tanzania closing for export or what?

 

[acpart]

I don''t know if there are economic or political factors fueling this, but those males are such a gorgeous electric blue that they're hard to resist. I've resisted so far because I have no place to put them, but I am drooling over them. If I ever get some, though,they will be CB.

Aliza

 

[VampyricAngelX]

I agree, they do look amazing. I know I'd love to have a male in a nice exo-terra tank. (always wanted one of those tanks and a male blue gecko would make it look so nice)

 

[darkridder]

yeah I was considering setting up a planted tank and getting a trio of them but I hate the idea of WC, have to many reptiles to want to play with those kind of cooties.

 

[Haroldo]

Are they being smuggled or is Tanzania closing for export or what?

Tanzania does export a good number of wildlife, but since this species (L. williamsi) is endemic to a protected forest (Kimboza), anyone can figure out the rest. As far as I know Tanzania has no plans to stop exporting, but eventually this species won't be getting out its gates anymore...

 

[Nigel4less]

Tanzania does export a good number of wildlife, but since this species (L. williamsi) is endemic to a protected forest (Kimboza), anyone can figure out the rest. As far as I know Tanzania has no plans to stop exporting, but eventually this species won't be getting out its gates anymore...

So it may be a good idea for someone with the space and means to keep this species to establish them in captivity? Compared to other Lygodactylus and Phelsuma species how hardy are they?

 

[Haroldo]

So it may be a good idea for someone with the space and means to keep this species to establish them in captivity? Compared to other Lygodactylus and Phelsuma species how hardy are they?

Nigel, considering they went from over $1500 a pair to less than $50 a pair wholesale in 18 months, i'd say the means are there for most persons. Spacewise, a 10 gallon would do a pair or trio (haven't personally tried, but know people that have) well. A 20 gallon would be awesome au natural, especially since they are under 4" total length.

Lygodactylus are highly adaptable geckos. They aren't a resilient as picturatus/luteopicturatus forms but are pretty hardy once they are established. I'd say if you can keep a Gold Dust day gecko, you can keep these. Any specific questions, feel free to ask.

 

[reptinut]

Just so you folks know, There ARE people breeding them successfuly, but i don't have any breeder names. Is Lygodactylus a genus related to Phelsuma? They look a lot like them and the care for them is almost identical to Phelsuma.

 

[M&I Gecko]

Breeding in Europe?

 

[Haroldo]

Just so you folks know, There ARE people breeding them successfuly, but i don't have any breeder names. Is Lygodactylus a genus related to Phelsuma? They look a lot like them and the care for them is almost identical to Phelsuma.

Breeding them successfully and successfully rearing the offspring are not necessarily the same thing. I see plenty of people posting "I have eggs" but not many posting, here are 3-4+ well-started animals (F1 from my WC stock). I DO know personally several people across the country actually working with F1 and F2 generations. I hope to add myself to that list before the year is out .

As I said before, Lygodactylus are highly adaptable. In general, they are much smaller than Phelsuma, but just as territorial. They are related in the sense that Phelsuma are generally found offshore Africa (Malagasy, etc.), while Lygodactylus are on Africa itself. Geckos from both genera are typically strictly diurnal.

I keep a good amount of Phelsuma and a few species of Lygodactylus...their care can be as night and day. Some Phelsuma would perish in a few days keeping the same as some of my Lygodactylus .

Breeding in Europe?

Yes.

 

[reptinut]

thanks for a bit of clarification. Care to describe the difference between Lygodactylus and Phelsuma?

 

[Haroldo]

thanks for a bit of clarification. Care to describe the difference between Lygodactylus and Phelsuma?

There are over 60 species of Phelsuma and at least that many of Lygodactylus. Unless you have a specific question of husbandry, or some other contrasting factor, that's just too broad of a question. I'm not a Phylogenetic expert and very few have even touched these two genera. I just happen to have first-hand experience with raising young from both "groups".

Pick up a book called "Day geckos" it's in the Professional Breeder Series. Bruse, Schmidt, and Meyer are the contributing authors.

 

[shanerules]

from what ive heard, many people are stocking up now because they think that soon importing of any lygodactylus species will be illegal. myself, I'm stockin up as well with the following:
L williamsi 1.1
L. Kimhowelli 1.2
H. Fasciata 1.1
L. Angularis 1.2

 

[Haroldo]

from what ive heard, many people are stocking up now because they think that soon importing of any lygodactylus species will be illegal. myself, I'm stockin up as well with the following:
L williamsi 1.1
L. Kimhowelli 1.2
H. Fasciata 1.1
L. Angularis 1.2

My question is

Importing of any Lygodactylus will be stopped? I'm curious to know where people are getting that info as that genus of geckos is spread liberally over Africa and even some places in Madagascar. Why (and this is one of the most annoying things) does something have to be non-exportable for people to take interest in it (i.e. why would a rumor of their ban be necessary for people to take interest in the geckos)? Don't get me wrong, I'm obviously a big fan of Lygodactylus, but why people find some species appealing is just silly. Stocking up in geckos means nothing unless you're doing something with them and more importantly, being able to sustain them into future years. That means several (unrelated as possible) pairs of a species for genetic diversity. I've not been in the hobby as long as others, but I often see interest in species pick up as their perceived rarity/scarcity increases, but few actually do anything with them. They simply want them for the "cool-factor". I hope for the sake of many underrated species, people start valuing their opportunity to work with them, regardless of how many are imported from the wild yearly.

 

[shanerules]

My question is

Importing of any Lygodactylus will be stopped? I'm curious to know where people are getting that info as that genus of geckos is spread liberally over Africa and even some places in Madagascar. Why (and this is one of the most annoying things) does something have to be non-exportable for people to take interest in it (i.e. why would a rumor of their ban be necessary for people to take interest in the geckos)? Don't get me wrong, I'm obviously a big fan of Lygodactylus, but why people find some species appealing is just silly. Stocking up in geckos means nothing unless you're doing something with them and more importantly, being able to sustain them into future years. That means several (unrelated as possible) pairs of a species for genetic diversity. I've not been in the hobby as long as others, but I often see interest in species pick up as their perceived rarity/scarcity increases, but few actually do anything with them. They simply want them for the "cool-factor". I hope for the sake of many underrated species, people start valuing their opportunity to work with them, regardless of how many are imported from the wild yearly.

the reqason people are taking big interest to this is because once importing is stopped not so many lygos will be available. well you may ask "so what? theres still the captive bred ones." well this is true but you also have to remember that over half the species in the reptile trade are imported. so once there gone there gone. so breeders are stockin up now so that they can sell captive bred offspring and make a small fortune. this is a great idea i think. not to stop importing but to get prepared for it. im gettign them to expand my species in my collection and because i like the geckos in general. i hope this helped answer any questions

 

[Haroldo]

the reqason people are taking big interest to this is because once importing is stopped not so many lygos will be available. well you may ask "so what? theres still the captive bred ones." well this is true but you also have to remember that over half the species in the reptile trade are imported. so once there gone there gone. so breeders are stockin up now so that they can sell captive bred offspring and make a small fortune. this is a great idea i think. not to stop importing but to get prepared for it. im gettign them to expand my species in my collection and because i like the geckos in general. i hope this helped answer any questions

Shane, thanks for sharing why you have interest in them, but I don't think you understood my prompt. I find myself annoyed with the premise an animal has to be banned for export (or rumored to be so soon) for people to take interest in them. Why not establish a captive bred population regardless of whether they keep coming in as imports? I for one know only a handful of keepers (besides myself) that actually kept Lygodactylus BEFORE 99.99% of hobbyist saw L. williamsi on the market (2.5 yrs ago or so ago). You pointed out what is particularly bothersome: people think they'll make a small fortune offering CH or CB offspring when Lygodactylus (and the countless other geckos) finally stop coming in. $$$ shouldn't be the #1 reason to "Stock up" on particular geckos.

I know a great deal of reptiles in our hobby are imported to the U.S. every year and few of those every get established in captivity because of it. People place little value on stuff that's common WC for some reason. As if it the effort of actually getting them to breed in captivity is a silly ambition. 99% of the species I have in my collection are not legally exportable from their country of origin. With many of them, I've spent years gathering lone animals to establish groups in my attempt to reestablish them in the hobby. Unfortunately 99% of those were species that at one time were imported into the U.S. but were devalued through one mechanism or another. Don't get me wrong, I've certainly passed on geckos that needed attention (in terms of captive reproduction) and so have my peers- It's just the nature of the beast if you will. The problem is playing the waiting game 'til a species is at risk for disappearing from the hobby altogether and then there's this peak or rush in interest. Acquire/work with what you like, so when interest swings (and perceived value), your collection isn't liable to fluctuate seriously.

Hope this clears up what I'm getting at here.

 

[shanerules]

Shane, thanks for sharing why you have interest in them, but I don't think you understood my prompt. I find myself annoyed with the premise an animal has to be banned for export (or rumored to be so soon) for people to take interest in them. Why not establish a captive bred population regardless of whether they keep coming in as imports? I for one know only a handful of keepers (besides myself) that actually kept Lygodactylus BEFORE 99.99% of hobbyist saw L. williamsi on the market (2.5 yrs ago or so ago). You pointed out what is particularly bothersome: people think they'll make a small fortune offering CH or CB offspring when Lygodactylus (and the countless other geckos) finally stop coming in. $$$ shouldn't be the #1 reason to "Stock up" on particular geckos.

I know a great deal of reptiles in our hobby are imported to the U.S. every year and few of those every get established in captivity because of it. People place little value on stuff that's common WC for some reason. As if it the effort of actually getting them to breed in captivity is a silly ambition. 99% of the species I have in my collection are not legally exportable from their country of origin. With many of them, I've spent years gathering lone animals to establish groups in my attempt to reestablish them in the hobby. Unfortunately 99% of those were species that at one time were imported into the U.S. but were devalued through one mechanism or another. Don't get me wrong, I've certainly passed on geckos that needed attention (in terms of captive reproduction) and so have my peers- It's just the nature of the beast if you will. The problem is playing the waiting game 'til a species is at risk for disappearing from the hobby altogether and then there's this peak or rush in interest. Acquire/work with what you like, so when interest swings (and perceived value), your collection isn't liable to fluctuate seriously.

Hope this clears up what I'm getting at here.

Ok i think i get what your sayin now. and i agree with you. people shouldnt wait till the animal is unable to import, etc. to breed them. they should like the gecko before then. which is why im getting them. i stated different earlier. HOWEVER, i was unaware of the rumor until after id talked to the breeder and reserved my geckos. so didnt mean to cross any lines there. Ive kept many species of geckos, and kept phelsumas before as well, just feel like id try a species ive liked for a while but could never afford.

If youd like to see some of the geckos me and my "co-workers" if you will have produced you can check our website. www.kcgeckos.web.officelive.com

thanks for the info on the lygos

 

[trizzypballr]

I also have a pair of Williamsi, a pair of Kimhowelli and a pair of Angularis. I heard nothing about export soon being shut down on them though. Honestly Williamsi caught my eye and when looking for them I thought it would be a good opportunity to grab a pair of kimhowelli and angularis also since I already had shipping paid for. My female Williamsi dropped a pair of eggs a few days after she came in. They were not glued anywhere though I found them in the echo earth in the bottom of her cage so im afraid they may not be fertilized. They have been incubating for almost 30 days so I guess I will find out around this time next month. Its crazy how tiny the eggs are!

 

[WingedWolfPsion]

Just picked up a trio

I just picked up a trio of L. williamsi myself, as I'm branching out into smaller lizards.

So far, I like them a lot. They're very active, and entertaining to watch. I understand some people are keeping them in trios, which is what I have at the moment...but, I already have an issue, and I'm removing a highly aggressive female from the cage later today. She's round as a football from eating everything in sight, and she chases both the subordinate female, and the male. She's been getting increasingly pushy, and the others only come out to eat and bask when she's sleeping off her huge meals somewhere...<lol> It's been suggested to me that she might be a male, but based on her overall behavior, I actually doubt that. I think she's just a nasty female. ^_^

Since the male has been adapting less quickly to his new home, and the subordinate female could use a little more meat on her bones (though she is extremely bright and resourceful), the pushy girl has got to go. Perhaps I can pick up an aggressive male to pair with her later, but I'm hoping that a few weeks away for the other two to establish better will allow me to reintroduce her. If she doesn't have the upper hand from the beginning, she might be able to fit in after all. She's definitely the healthiest animal out of the lot, and has great color, so I want her in my breeding program. Here's hoping my male rallies and starts to do a bit better. (He's not in terrible shape, but he spends most of his time extremely dark, and doesn't eat as much as the other two yet--I suspect he was much more highly stressed by shipping. It took him three days to stop diving for cover every time one of us moved in the room).

They're eating fruit flies and dusted pinhead crickets, and CGD. I have started a mini-mealworm culture, have springtails on the way, and will be culturing tropical woodlice as well, as I want to avoid having to use crickets (they're such a pain).

Daytime temps are around 85, and I'm keeping humidity between 50 and 90% (it's usually around 70%). They get misted for drinking water 3 times per day.

The tank is planted with pothos, bromeliads, sanseveria, and moss, and they have bamboo (which they love) and a corkbark piece on the back (which they also love). The top of the thermometer/hygrometer (which is rectangular) seems to be a favorite place for sacking out for a nap.

Those who have had breeding success with this species--any advice?