WHEN GOOD GECKOS GO BAD

[Halley]

Okay well I hope this is the right section, I could have put it in 3 of the other sections, but I think it fits better here.

Okay I had a male SSTA in a tub with my enigma, het tremper for another re-breeding. I have had these two in the same tub before and both seemed fine. However I introduced a line breed snow female into the tub with these two. As soon as I did this the enigma, het tremper female attacked the SSTA male. So I grab the SSTA out before he got beat up to much (he is fine, no cuts, or anything). After I grabbed the SSTA out, I put him in another tub with another female. As soon as the SSTA was gone the enigma, het tremper attacked the line breed snow. So needles to say I put the LBS back in the tub she was in before. Why this is weird is because this gecko has never shown any aggression before, and has seemed fine with any other gecko I have ever put her with, it just was kidda a sudden snap. She was even fine with the SSTA until the LBS female was introduced as well.

So after this episode was done I just kidda forgot about it, and didn’t really think about it again until today, because here is what happened

I put the SSTA male in another tub with another enigma female (this was after I broke the SSTA and enigma, het Tremper up the other day). Today I figured I would try to breed the LBS female to the SSTA male again, so there are three geckos in the tub, an enigma female, a SSTA male, and a LBS female. I closed the tub, and after about 10 seconds I heard a lot of ruffling around. I didn’t think anything about it at fist, as I hear this a lot when I first introduce geckos that should breed. But it when on longer than normal, so I opened up the tub, and guess what I saw. The enigma female was attacking the SSTA male. She had his leg in a death grip, and was doing a death roll like an alligator. Luckily I got them apart before any real damage was done. So after they where broken up, I put the enigma female in a seperate tub by herself. So now the SSTA male, and LBS female are in their own tub, to do their thing.

Here is what I find really weird about this.

1. Both the enigma females never showed aggression to humans or any other geckos before this, but they both just suddenly snapped, at very close time periods.
2. The enigma females didn’t go after the new gecko (LBS), they went after the male that was in the tub with them for a while, in which time there was no aggression.
3. They never went after the male until the new female was introduced
4. Each female was sent off by the SSTA, and LBS pair
5. Each female was an enigma

I was wondering if this is normal behavior for geckos to just snap?

And why would both females go after the SSTA, and not the LBS?

Has anybody else ever had geckos just snap?

Has anybody had this happen recently?

Has anybody else ever heard of sometime like this happening, or something similar happing?

I’m VERY interested in hearing the responses, as I just find this extremely weird, and am curious as to if anybody else has ever had this happen, or what possible explanations people can come up with for this happening.

Thanks in advance

 

[Paco]

I have come to learn sometimes the females do not want to be bothered. I wait to see the females reaction before I leave them alone. You can tell right away wether or not the female wants anything to do with the male, at least from my obserations. I have had several females that have been very testy this season so far. I have had females go after the male. I been trying to put my male with the females once a week. Sometimes they are receptive sometimes they are not. But I allways wait to make sure they will get along before I leave them alone.

 

[GeckoJunkie]

Paco has some great points, also keep in mind that each gecko can carry the scent of another gecko on them for a certaiin amount of time. Maybe the females were smelling the scent of another female on the male? I do not move my males from one enclosure to another without a couple of days break between. Just to make sure that the male does not carry the scent of the other females into the new enclosure. I know this is true, if you do not think so take a female and put her in with a male, then in a day or two move her to another males cages and he will attack her like she is a male. Why? because he smells a male.

 

[Paco]

Also I allways like to put the females in the males enclosure. I think it's better for the male to feel he is within his territory. Even if the females attack him he is a least in his own zone. I think this has been a problem for many breeders this year, there a lot of post about this.

 

[Halley]

Okay you guys both have good points, and I see what you are saying.

But, the LBS snow was in a cage with another female, so there really shouldn’t be any aggression between female most of the time… And the females both attacked the male after he was in their cages from 1 week for the first female, and 1 day for the second female. So they had to have been use to him by then, right?

So why attack the male that has been in the cage for some time, when all I introduced was a female, which came from a cage that only housed females?

 

[Paco]

Did the Females go after the male on their own. Or did they attack the male after he tried to make advances on them. There is a huge difference between a female that attacks a male and a female that is trying to tell a male leave me alone. Putting the male in with 2 females might have upped his Libido. As I have said earlier, I have watched copulation and sperated the the 2, put them back togehter 5-7 days later and the female will want nothing to do with the male. She would attack the male and put some good marks on him, if he tried to make any advances on her. Put her in the cage a week later and copulation happens again. So go figure.

 

[Halley]

No, the male didn’t try to breed either of the enigmas females, when then they went to attack them. He didn’t even really going after the LBS female at first. They just attacked him for no real reason. Well I guess I should say the first attack was for no real reason, I didn’t actually witness the start of the second one, so it would be possible that the second attack by the second enigma was because she didn’t want to be bothered.

 

[godzillizard]

Are you 100% positive the Enigma female is ovulating? Some females, even though ovulating just aren't receptive to advances. Also, do you know what temp the Enigma female was incubated at? because a masculine incubated female would likely be more aggressive. It does sounds like a scent issue, but it could just be that the female isn't in the mood at the moment

 

[Halley]

I though of something, that might be able to support the sent theory. The cage mate of the LBS that I introduced was thought to be a male until a couple of days ago, but I really felt that she was a female. To make 100% positive she wasn’t a male I put her in with three different male geckos, to test the reaction. She is in fact a female.

the three male’s sent could have went onto her, and then onto the LBS? Then when I put the LBS into the other cages she could have had sent of other males?

But here is what doesn’t make sense to me. How could they smell another male’s geckos sent after a day or so of it being on her cage mate? The geckos I tested her with came in very little contact as well. I’m also assuming sense leopard geckos come from the desert they don’t have the highest sense of smell. Because to have a good sense of smell it is more than likely that they would have to have moist naval cavity, in the desert this would lead to increase lose of fluids, and really wouldn’t be a good adaptation.

The other thing that doesn’t add up is that it was the females that attacked the male. That male was already in the cage. So why would they attack the male that they got along with, even if the new gecko had another male’s geckos sent on? Wouldn’t it be more likely that the SSTA would attack the line breed snow, then the Enigmas attacking the line breed snow if it smelled like a male?

Are you 100% positive the Enigma female is ovulating?

The first female is most likely done for the season. But I have noticed that with some female, that even if they seem like they are done laying, if I put them in with a male again, that they start to lay again.

The second female I am 100% sure that she is ovulating.