X-Files?!

[Paco]

That is a Raptor and I am 100% sure Steve would NOT get it wrong.

Are you 100% sure you did not mix up any eggs??? If there is any doubt at all you most likely mixed something up. That's the Only way I could see an Enigma Hatching out. JMO

Otherwise you have just hatched out a possible New Enigma Strain??? If you get more from the same Pairing you might have something otherwise I think you mixed up eggs. JMO

 

[Baoh]

That is a Raptor and I am 100% sure Steve would NOT get it wrong.

Are you 100% sure you did not mix up any eggs??? If there is any doubt at all you most likely mixed something up. That's the Only way I could see an Enigma Hatching out. JMO

Otherwise you have just hatched out a possible New Enigma Strain??? If you get more from the same Pairing you might have something otherwise I think you mixed up eggs. JMO

My thoughts echo this.

 

[Nigel4less]

That is a Raptor and I am 100% sure Steve would NOT get it wrong.

Are you 100% sure you did not mix up any eggs??? If there is any doubt at all you most likely mixed something up. That's the Only way I could see an Enigma Hatching out. JMO

Otherwise you have just hatched out a possible New Enigma Strain??? If you get more from the same Pairing you might have something otherwise I think you mixed up eggs. JMO

I do know for a FACT, that a very large East Coast breeder sent about 800-1000 Leopards with various genetics(including Enigmas) to Malaysia in 2007

 

[DarthGekko]

That is a Raptor and I am 100% sure Steve would NOT get it wrong.

Are you 100% sure you did not mix up any eggs??? If there is any doubt at all you most likely mixed something up. That's the Only way I could see an Enigma Hatching out. JMO

Otherwise you have just hatched out a possible New Enigma Strain??? If you get more from the same Pairing you might have something otherwise I think you mixed up eggs. JMO

I bet the egg records were mixed up. I agree that Steve would NOT get it wrong.

 

[Paco]

I do know for a FACT, that a very large East Coast breeder sent about 800-1000 Leopards with various genetics(including Enigmas) to Malaysia in 2007

Well that could be very ture Nigel.

But the Pic of the Male is one of Steve's at Gecko's Ects. So the Male she Claims is the father is ruled out.

So unless the Female is Nova which she does not look like, I doubt she has a non Identifiable Enigma.

Nova's with all red eyes are not the Same as Raptors red eyes. You can easily tell them apart.

 

[Azazel]

That is a Raptor and I am 100% sure Steve would NOT get it wrong.

Are you 100% sure you did not mix up any eggs??? If there is any doubt at all you most likely mixed something up. That's the Only way I could see an Enigma Hatching out. JMO

Otherwise you have just hatched out a possible New Enigma Strain??? If you get more from the same Pairing you might have something otherwise I think you mixed up eggs. JMO

Yes I am sure that I didn't get the eggs mixed up. This is because I have only one male Tremper Enigma poss. het R.A.P.T.O.R. And that particular male prolapsed during his first copulation attempt with a female R.A.P.T.O.R. Apart from blood, his sperm was ejaculated outside the vent of the female and it was all over the paper substrate. A few weeks afterwards, the female laid two slugs. I threw the eggs away and treated the male Tremper Enigma until he healed. He hasn't come near a female leopard geckos after that. You can try and search for my post a few months ago. I posted a thread on him (together with his willy sticking out haha).

The question is that even if I got the eggs mixed up (which I am 100% confident I didn't), how could they yield such result when the sole Tremper Enigma in my collection is put to early retirement this season and the only female he tried to impregnate laid slugs? He bred the female RAPTOR under my supervision (I watched because I'm a pervert haha). Even so, that was only for the first time (before he went bust haha).

I have more eggs waiting to hatch from the same pairing (1.0 RAPTOR X 0.1 Het RAPTOR). I think let's wait out for the next clutch and see what happens. What if more came out as Novas? What's that suppose to mean? Will it be good or bad? Also, what if this time round none came out as Novas?

Another thing, I didn't say Steve was wrong nor right. He's the best ever and he has my highest respect :main_thumbsup:. And I believe just like me, Steve would not want to sell a Nova for the price of a RAPTOR anyway. I was just inquiring what just happened. That's all.

This is how I labelled my eggs prior to putting them into an incubation box.

Each eggs' container was labelled immediately after I transferred them from the laying box. And each container will consist of only one clutch, whether the clutch consist of one or two eggs.

I do know for a FACT, that a very large East Coast breeder sent about 800-1000 Leopards with various genetics(including Enigmas) to Malaysia in 2007

That's quite a big number. Imagine the amount of babies they could produce :main_lipsrsealed:.

Well that could be very ture Nigel.

But the Pic of the Male is one of Steve's at Gecko's Ects. So the Male she Claims is the father is ruled out.

So unless the Female is Nova which she does not look like, I doubt she has a non Identifiable Enigma.

Nova's with all red eyes are not the Same as Raptors red eyes. You can easily tell them apart.

How do their eyes differ?

I'm a dude by the way

Regards

 

[Azazel]

This was the thread I was telling you about:
http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=36060

 

[Paco]

Yes I am sure that I didn't get the eggs mixed up. This is because I have only one male Tremper Enigma poss. het R.A.P.T.O.R. And that particular male prolapsed during his first copulation attempt with a female R.A.P.T.O.R. Apart from blood, his sperm was ejaculated outside the vent of the female and it was all over the paper substrate. A few weeks afterwards, the female laid two slugs. I threw the eggs away and treated the male Tremper Enigma until he healed. He hasn't come near a female leopard geckos after that. You can try and search for my post a few months ago. I posted a thread on him (together with his willy sticking out haha).

The question is that even if I got the eggs mixed up (which I am 100% confident I didn't), how could they yield such result when the sole Tremper Enigma in my collection is put to early retirement this season and the only female he tried to impregnate laid slugs? He bred the female RAPTOR under my supervision (I watched because I'm a pervert haha). Even so, that was only for the first time (before he went bust haha).

I have more eggs waiting to hatch from the same pairing (1.0 RAPTOR X 0.1 Het RAPTOR). I think let's wait out for the next clutch and see what happens. What if more came out as Novas? What's that suppose to mean? Will it be good or bad? Also, what if this time round none came out as Novas?

Another thing, I didn't say Steve was wrong nor right. He's the best ever and he has my highest respect :main_thumbsup:. And I believe just like me, Steve would not want to sell a Nova for the price of a RAPTOR anyway. I was just inquiring what just happened. That's all.

This is how I labelled my eggs prior to putting them into an incubation box.

Each eggs' container was labelled immediately after I transferred them from the laying box. And each container will consist of only one clutch, whether the clutch consist of one or two eggs.


That's quite a big number. Imagine the amount of babies they could produce :main_lipsrsealed:.


How do their eyes differ?

I'm a dude by the way

Regards

Firdaus... We are all just trying to figure out how this little one popped out.

It's just seems very Odd with the Combo you used to produce Enigma's is all. If you had no Enigma's in your collection it would be really weird.

So the Enigma het Raptor did not produce any good eggs for you at all? He was only with the 1 Female raptor and never introduced to any other female ever? Just making sure.

Who was the Female Purchased from and when? Is she a possible Enigma Sibling? Is the male in question an Enigma Sibling? These are questions you need to start looking into.

If you end up Hatching out more Enigmas from that pairing I would say you are 1 Lucky Guy. We will have to wait and see I guess. It could mean that what we know about how the Enigma Gene works just might change. If this animal did in fact come the pairing you said it did.

What do the Eye's Look like on the little on in question??

As far as the Enigma Raptors I have hatched out(been 2 so far) their eyes Have been Almost a Neon Red/Orange in color, Very Bright and Brilliant in appearance. Much more orange color to them, than the Red Eyed Raptor. As sub Adults now their eye color is a Deep Dark Shade of Orange.

Now the Tremper Enigma het Raptor I hatched out Had much Different Eye coloring than the Novas, Only an slight amount of orange in his eyes. Now as a Sub Adult has pretty Much Albino Colored Eyes Except the Veining in the Eye's is Purple Instead of Red

 

[Azazel]

Firdaus... We are all just trying to figure out how this little one popped out.

It's just seems very Odd with the Combo you used to produce Enigma's is all. If you had no Enigma's in your collection it would be really weird.

So the Enigma het Raptor did not produce any good eggs for you at all? He was only with the 1 Female raptor and never introduced to any other female ever? Just making sure.

Fortunately he did. The 0.1 RAPTOR (that I bred to my Tremper Enigma) laid her second clutch on April 25, 2009 and her third clutch on May 10, 2009. She is still gravid but those were her successful clutches so far. Anyway, the gap between the first clutch (which were slugs) and the second clutch (which are good eggs) is almost about a month apart. According to my record, the clutch that yielded the nova was laid on March 26, 2009 and hatched on May 10, 2009. That's 45 days of incubation.

Now, let's assume that I mixed up the second clutch of the pairing between Tremper Enigma Poss. Het RAPTOR with the RAPTOR and thought they were actually eggs from the pairing of 1.0 RAPTOR with 0.1 Het RAPTOR. If the eggs were laid on April 25, 2009 and hatched on May 10, 2009, then the total incubation days would be just 15 days right? I don't think that's even possible nor logical.

Who was the Female Purchased from and when? Is she a possible Enigma Sibling? Is the male in question an Enigma Sibling? These are questions you need to start looking into.

I bought them from geckosetc. As for the question whether the male or the female is an Enigma sibling, I have to confess that I sincerely do not know because I didn't ask such questions before. Back then, I know very little about leo morphs.

What do the Eye's Look like on the little on in question??

As far as the Enigma Raptors I have hatched out(been 2 so far) their eyes Have been Almost a Neon Red/Orange in color, Very Bright and Brilliant in appearance. Much more orange color to them, than the Red Eyed Raptor. As sub Adults now their eye color is a Deep Dark Shade of Orange.

Now the Tremper Enigma het Raptor I hatched out Had much Different Eye coloring than the Novas, Only an slight amount of orange in his eyes. Now as a Sub Adult has pretty Much Albino Colored Eyes Except the Veining in the Eye's is Purple Instead of Red

Thanks for the information. So far all the six that hatched on the same day possess the same eye traits. They all look the same i.e. R(uby-eyed)APTOR eyes. They don't seem to differ at all. When you said the nova eyes are neon red/orange, were you refering to when they hatched or as they grow?

By the way, do you mind telling me what this is? It's the nova sibling.

Even without prominent Enigma markings, initially, I thought this was a Tremper Enigma due to her behavior (circling & wobbling). But now she seems to be walking and moving normally. It also has two full ruby red eyes instead of orange eyes. Is she a RAPTOR then?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Paco]

Firdaus...Well it seems that you keep good records. So now I am really wondering what is going on. You sure your Enigma was never near the Female in question, sorry just have to make sure.

Post a few more Pics of the pos Nova if you don't mind. Need to get a better look at that guy. Try and get some good top head shots.

Post pics of both of the Females in Question as well.

Did you get the second female form Steve as well?

Steve Might have records on the parents of the 2 you bought.

The Nova Eyes Just seem to have a different color to them(at least to me) than the Raptors did, A bit more orange. It will change for sure as they age and become much more apparent.

The Pic you just posted looks like a Raptor for sure. I hatched out several Very Light colored Raptors Last year that got Awesome color later on.

 

[Azazel]

Firdaus...Well it seems that you keep good records. So now I am really wondering what is going on. You sure your Enigma was never near the Female in question, sorry just have to make sure.

Post a few more Pics of the pos Nova if you don't mind. Need to get a better look at that guy. Try and get some good top head shots.

Post pics of both of the Females in Question as well.

Did you get the second female form Steve as well?

Steve Might have records on the parents of the 2 you bought.

The Nova Eyes Just seem to have a different color to them(at least to me) than the Raptors did, A bit more orange. It will change for sure as they age and become much more apparent.

The Pic you just posted looks like a Raptor for sure. I hatched out several Very Light colored Raptors Last year that got Awesome color later on.

Ok. Here are some pictures. Sorry it took a while. Couldn't find the time to properly photograph them until yesterday.

Full body shot

Eye shot

You were right about the eyes. All hatched out with ruby red eyes. But when I re-checked yesterday, it's now seems to differ significantly compared to R.A.P.T.O.R.s. I took the most prettiest R.A.P.T.O.R. I produced (as of date) for comparison. Below are the pictures.

Full body shot

Eye shot

Enjoy!

Regards

 

[paulnj]

Is everyone done guessing and trying to pull an answer out of thin air.....????? That's a enigma hatchling.

Ask Steve if he bred your female to an enigma last season... DING DING DING!!!! Some females have been known to retain sperm for quite along time.

I know for a fact that a west coast breeder........ :main_evilgrin:

 

[Azazel]

Is everyone done guessing and trying to pull an answer out of thin air.....????? That's a enigma hatchling.

Ask Steve if he bred your female to an enigma last season... DING DING DING!!!! Some females have been known to retain sperm for quite along time.

I know for a fact that a west coast breeder........ :main_evilgrin:

Thanks Paul. I will do just that once he gets back.

 

[Paco]

Is everyone done guessing and trying to pull an answer out of thin air.....????? That's a enigma hatchling.

Ask Steve if he bred your female to an enigma last season... DING DING DING!!!! Some females have been known to retain sperm for quite along time.

I know for a fact that a west coast breeder........ :main_evilgrin:

Paul... No need to guess now. The most recent pics show what it is. It's a for sure Enigma.

Have you hatched out offspring the next season from the previous season breedings? If so how often has it happened.

Well very cool. I new it happened in some Snakes only makes sense it could happen in a Leo.

Your last sentence kinda feel off. What do you know about a west coast breeder?

 

[paulnj]

I know a person who got offspring the following season from a previously bred animal. I bred a Mack het eclipse 66 tremper last season to a enigma and she laid one clutch. She went to a non enigma male this season and the first clutch was a ENIGMA. 6 months between 1 and second enigma clutches and the 09 breeding took for the next clutch.

Rare I would think, but it can happen .

 

[Azazel]

Hi guys, here are the total Novas I have hatched thus far:

Uno (I believe you had seen this one before)

Dos

All were taken about one or two days after hatching. And both came from the same pairing. My breeders are on fire LOL!

Regards