A bit of egg trouble..

[KaitouCat]

When checking the incubator today, I noticed a few issues with some of the eggs.. Eggs are being incubated in this incubator and oringally set to a temp of about 80-81 but due to recent VERY cold weather I increased it to about 88 or so for an inside temp of about 84-85 a few weeks ago.

1st clutch date: December 24th-25th, 2013
Egg on the right seems to be a bit squishy feeling and I don't know if it's just me but it almost looks like it's sweating. Now if I were to loose one or both of these eggs, it would be quite devastating as they were due to hatch mid next month or so. The egg in question has been slightly buried just in case..
1, 2


2nd clutch date: January 7th, 2014
One of the eggs looks really dented while the other seems to be starting. After a bit of research both eggs were covered and the rim of the cup given a light spritz to help bulk them back up hopefully.
1


3rd clutch date: January 20th. 2014
I'm just happy that nothing seems to have happened to my third clutch yet though they themselves were a bit strange from the start, being a bit dark in color and one looking as if it got a burn on it some how. I however did not bother to get a picture of them as I wanted to leave them alone unless it was obvious that something was wrong.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

A couple questions to help better understand perhaps:

1. How did you measure the ratio of vermiculite (I assume that's what you're using?) and water?

2. I think I see holes in the cup in your last picture. I usually recommend NO holes anywhere in the cup, espectially with an overhead heating incubator like you're using. The humidity evaporates super fast if there is any way for it to escape. I might tape over the holes in your cups (if they are there) or switch them to a different container like a sandwich container with the substrate ratio re-measured.

3. Do you have a second thermometer that you're using to keep track of the inside temperature? I'm a bit anal about eggs and have at least one in my main incubator in addition to the thermostat that I move around to see what the temperature is at various places.

4. Have you candled the eggs to make sure they were fertile in the first place? Most of my females laid one if not two infertile eggs their first clutch. If the eggs have been incubating for 5+ weeks they should look kinda dark and bright pink inside. If they look yellow they are most likely infertile.

I'll see if I can dig up a few pictures I took of good and bad eggs last season if I find some time this afternoon or evening

 

[KaitouCat]

1. I used Albey's method. Although I may have made a mistake seeing as this was a first time thing..

2. There are indeed holes on the sides although I got them like that. If need be I can scrounge up some tape and cover them or switch to one of the many ziploc I now have laying around. I just have to find one of the smaller ones.. Also should I put more than just two of them in there because I'm not entirely sure how many of the containers I'll be able to fit in.

3. I'm currently using this inside in the middle of all the cups and this as a back up measure.

4. All eggs have been candled a few days after they were laid and all appear fertile. Besides I'd imagine that the first two would have spoiled awhile ago if they were not fertile to begin with. Image was from the first clutch the day the second clutch arrived. Should I get a more updated shot so you can see how they look? ; n;

 

[acpart]

You could go to the supermarket and get some gladware containers and use them for the eggs. Then you wouldn't have to tape anything. Sometimes eggs can look good but not be viable. It's a pain to wait, but you'll know within the next few months which ones continued to be OK. Good luck.

Aliza

 

[KaitouCat]

So then it will be ok to move them into a new container safely? If so I have prepped a new ziplock container using the same method and stuck it in the incubator for later after I get off work in about three-four hours and hoping for a confirmation. That and it will get it pre-heated so they're not sitting on something cold for several hours while the vermiculite heats up. No holes in it what so ever either or if it would be better I could instead prep new deli cups that I recently bought just for this reason though so long as it would be alright I wouldn't mind placing them together since they're all from the same mother anyways.


Thanks and sorry for being such a novice although there are just some things that might be missed and with those other two having been due sometime next month, everything seemed to be going just fine.. At least there won't be anymore clutches so this novice mistake won't be happening again anytime soon. I just hope that the eggs can be saved and will be ok. I just feel dreadful about all this happening.
Please don't be mad..



Edit: Alright the eggs have been moved into the container prepped this morning. Also while moving them I noticed that one of the denting eggs has plumped back up and the other seemed to be improving a bit as well and the one from the other clutch seems to have recovered. The one that is still needing to be plumped up has been slightly covered again. Now to sit back and hope for the best.


here's the new setup.


There's an egg to the right of the thermometer, it's just lightly buried. Eggs have been placed from top to bottom in order of clutch date and lid has been labeled with the exact dates.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I'm not sure what Albey's method is but you should make sure your water ratio is 1:.8 so for example, if you were using 20g of dry vermiculite you would add 16g of water (I use a spray bottle to mix mine). You would want to add the weight of the container +20g +16g to get the weight it should be total. When I started I wrote this number on the lid of the container to make myself feel more confident about what I was doing. The I would add 2-3g for each egg I added and weight every month or so to know about how much water to add (if any). So if you had two sets of eggs incubating I would add about 10g to the weight and spray water around the side to try to keep the moisture ratio consistent. The eggs gain a bot of weight as they grow but being off by a gram or two of water won't hurt them much.

Your egg definitely looks fertile in the picture you posted! Your first season is a learning experience and nothing to feel bad about!! We all went through the same learning curve. You do what you can and learn from the rest. Also, sometimes things happen with the eggs that are out of our control and they don't make it to hatching no matter what you do. You can generally expect a few infertile eggs from first time breeders and 10-15% loss on fertile eggs and/or hatchlings from just nature doing it's thing. It's not necessarily anything you did wrong, just how it goes when you're breeding animals that produce a lot of offspring so don't blame yourself immediately!! Much more than 15% and I might look into changing things up as that would indicate that something may not be 100% correct or that your breeding group is too closely related or something like that. We all encounter problems and issues, it's that and how you work to solve them that counts

 

[KaitouCat]

This is the Albey's method.
Also the other post has been updated. ; u;

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Here are a few photos of eggs and hatchlings of mine from last season if it helps! All but the two in the small deli cup were incubated at 81 degrees. Those in the deli cup were incubated at 88 for male. The containers with the red tops are Glad sandwich containers and the last photo is of an 8oz deli cup.

Bold stripes and eggs:



Sunglow Eggs hatching:



In the incubator:



Male eggs (two on the top left that look dented hatched that night):

 

[DrCarrotTail]

"Albey's method" then is what I used to mix mine and explained again (but not quite as well or thoroughly!!) in my post about mixing

 

[KaitouCat]

So hopefully all will be ok then. I'll post again in a few days or a week with an update about how they're doing. I don't want to bother them to much and possibly cause more issues by to much exposure to the cooler room temps.

 

[KaitouCat]

Welp I just uncovered the egg and I'm happy to announce that it's plumped back up! Still seems a bit soft but that will likely clear up in the next day or so. I would have waited another day but technically this was day three which seemed to be the suggested waiting period before checking again. Now I certainly will not be bothering them again unless another problem occurs which hopefully there will be none. <3


Also forgot to mention those are some adorable babies! What type of substrate did you use in the lay box by the way to get the eggs looking so clean?

 

[DrCarrotTail]

The cleaner eggs in the clear deli cup were laid in clean yellow New Zealand sphagnum moss. I tested it out with that female and actually didn't like using it much as a laybox substrate. It was kinda "fluffy" and there were air gaps that prevented consistent moisture and the female couldn't dig in it as well. This season I went back to cocofiber as it seems to hold a more consistent moisture level even though it makes the eggs "dirty" haha.