A Good Air Temp

[Haligren]

As some of you may know I live in a basement, a dungeon, if you will. ;P

And it stays pretty chilly down here in the winter months. (About 65D-70D Fahrenheit) As you can imagine, the air temp in Tiamat's tank isn't very high either. I do have UTH under the warm side of the tank and a 50w nightglo bulb. On the cooler side I have a 14w nightglo bulb. However, even on the area above the UTH my digital thermometer says that it's about 82D, the air temp is about 80. The cool side is almost ten degrees less and sits around 72 or so.

Tiamat seems well enough - she eats, produces waste, and spends a lot of time resting in her humid hide. When I go to handle her she is alert and friendly. But I'm concerned that the air temp may still be a touch too low. Most care sheets that I've looked at say that the warm side should be in the high 80s to low 90s. Considering the time of year as well, is 82D floor temp alright for my gecko?

 

[Gregg M]

An 82 degree hot spot is not good enough... They need a hot spot of atleast 95 degrees and an ambient air temp in the mid 80s through out the cage... This is a problem a lot of keepers face during the cold months when using all glass aquariums... AGAs are great for fish, not for reptiles... They let out too much valuable heat and humidity...

So, what can you do to up the temps??? For starters, a good uth hooked up to a thermostat will help control the floor temps on the hot side... To keep air temps higher, wrap a sheet of tinfoil around the tank cover so that atleast two thirds of the screen is covered and put the light where the screen is not covered...

Keeping them hot through the winter months will keep them from going off feed and it will make sure they are getting all they need from the food they eat... This makes for a much healthier leo

 

[Haligren]

I'm a little confused. Most care sheets I've read say that ambient air temp on the hot side should be 80-90 (with 92 being optimum) and on the cool side 70-80. I retested the hotspot in a slightly different spot (right in her warm hide where she hangs out when she's not in her humid hide) and it said 89.8. I put tinfoil on the cover and the air temps have gone up a little; Warm side is about 84, cool side 74. Will this hinder the air flow any? I don't want my leo getting smothered.

Also, I don't have enough money for an adjustable thermostat (I get paid this week though). But I'll be looking into getting one as soon as I can.

 

[Bennayboi]

Floor temps are most important. The warm side FLOOR needs to be close to 88-92F. I really dont think air tempature matters that much, as long its at least room tempature(68F). If you want it warmer the tin foil sounds like a good idea, and you can get an enclosed hide made of rock with just an opening for the leo to get in. That would trap heat from the UTH.

 

[Gregg M]

Floor temps are most important. The warm side FLOOR needs to be close to 88-92F. I really dont think air tempature matters that much, as long its at least room tempature(68F).

I hope you are not serious... Ambient air temps are just as important as "floor" temps... One is not any less or any more important... The difference in air temps you say are fine and what I posted will make the difference if your leo will eat during the winter or not... A 68 degree air temp is way too low... Mid 80s is where it should be... The floor temp should be atleast 95 at the hot spot...

 

[Bennayboi]

My leo eats year round, with just an UTH that keeps the warm side floor tempature at ~90 degrees. Everything else is at room tempature. Everything ive read and heard and tried shows ambient air tempature is not nearly as important as ground tempature.

 

[Snowy & Petra de Gecko]

What Temp

I think that the floor temp should be about 88 to 92 degrees in the Warm Part of the tank and the cooler end of the tank should be about 10 to 15 degrees cooler. Of course that will depend on the UTH and the outside air temp.


Ambient air temps are also important. However, they will be a lower than the floor temp.

Caresheets say that the Temperatures should reach (80-88 hi and 70-75 low),(85-88 hi with the warm side dropping down to upper 70s at night),(86-88 hi and 70-80 low),(85-90 hi and 75-80 low),(84-90 hi with warm side dropping down to 75 at night),(90-95 hi with winter temperature dropping temp by 5 degrees and 80-85 low),(Another website Night Temperature shoud be 70-72 and a small part of the substrate should be heated to 92 degrees with a UTH)

That is 7 different temperature ranges from 7 different Caresheets. (I would have to look at the books I have to see if there are any different ranges.)

My nighttime floor temp is about 89 (and 70/74 in the cool end) and Petra de Gecko likes to sit on the warm side of the tank.

So your Leo is looking for that overall belly temp and that is why she is staying in the hide.


I probably agree that an "82 hot spot" is too cold.


I would assume that the temp in the basement does not go too low but, may get to be around 56 degrees. I would then assume that it would not get below freezing in the basement less than 32 degrees.

You could put a towel or blanket under the tank (maybe depending on the UTH) or hang it over three sides of the tank. Then assuming that you have a screen top, just put a small towel across the middle of your tanks top. I am assuming that the small towel would rest between the two lights. This would slow down heat loss and would not stop circulation.

84 is fine if the bottom the tank is 89 (not counting the hide).


Personally, from what little I know, I think that 88 to 92 is just fine. If the floor temp hits 95 then that would be ok too.

Air temp will be less than the floor temp and 84 is fine.

During the day, the air temp inside my tank has gotten up to 105 degrees. That was on the hot end and the other end it was in the 80s. Petra de Gecko was inside the tank hiding in a Cork Hide. I know that it was cooler in there but, I do not know what the floor temp was because I did not have a noncontact thermometer. I am making changes to my tank set up so that does not happen.

With a light on the tank during the day the hot end floor temp reaches 105 degrees with the air temp being 86 degrees. (with a noncontact thermometer)

I don't remember what the cool end temp of the tank was.



Now if it gets really cold in the basement at night ... see if you can put a space heater down there near the tank to raise the overall air temp that is outside of the tank. This may be a cheaper way to heat the tank if you can run a small space heater in your basement.:main_thumbsup:

 

[Snowy & Petra de Gecko]

Ambient Air Temp

Bennayboi -

Ambient Air Temp is applicable only when it matters. Indirectly it does not matter.

If your tanks are in the house then, you do not have a significant outside temp drop.

Most, if not all, of the UTH are designed to be 20 degrees higher than the outside air temp. So if the outside air temp is very low say 50 degrees then the UTH will only heat the bottom of the tank to say 70 degrees.

Now if your tanks are in your house then the outside temp will probably be 70 to 75 during the winter and your tanks temp will be 90 to 95.

I do not know for sure but that is what I am guessing.

 

[Haligren]

I definately would think that air temp would have some sort importance to the comfort of the gecko, at the very least. So according to most caresheets I've read, my air temps are fine, I just need a higher floor temp. I think part of the problem is that it's on a wooden table with a nothing but a cotton tablecloth on it. My father-in-law has offered to get a small piece of that bubble-wrap/tinfoil insulation to put on the underside of the tank so that it might bring the temp up a bit. For now, I think I'll just use a towel.

And our dungeon doesn't get terribly cold; we do have heat. But hot air rises, so the basement is the coldest area of the house. From what I know it seldom falls below 65 degrees.

 

[Snowy & Petra de Gecko]

Basements

Basements use to be a place where dry food stuffs and root vegetables would be kept. Typically, in an underground environment the temps will be about 56 degrees. Of course, I am trying to remember the actual temp. Now if you dig deeper into the earth it will get warmer.

But, before Refrigs and Ice Boxes ... certain items would be kept in the basement because it was cooler. Things may not freeze but, they could be stored down there for a long time.

 

[Haligren]

Heh. Yeah, I know. We're on the same level as the pantry/cool-room.

 

[Gregg M]

My leo eats year round, with just an UTH that keeps the warm side floor tempature at ~90 degrees. Everything else is at room tempature. Everything ive read and heard and tried shows ambient air tempature is not nearly as important as ground tempature.

Ok, so in my 20+ years of keeping reptiles, I can tell you that ambient air temps are just as important... If ambient air temps get too low, reptiles will go off feed, not breed, and pretty much not be as healthy or grow as quickly as animals kept hotter... Room temp is rediculously low and a 90 degree hotspot is too low as well...

Please, show me one stitch of literature worth more than the paper it is written on that says ambient air temp is not important when maintaining reptiles in captivity...

Leos do not need to be cycled so air temps should stay in the mid 80s year round...

Caresheets are pretty basic, general, and broad... Most of what you read in caresheets is information that is atleast a decade old and just keeps being passed on... I was never one to talk a caresheet and use it as my guideline... Honestly, I have not seen one caresheet on leos that was spacific... The info is VERY general and looks like it can be the caresheet for 15 other species...

Basically, if you keep your gecko by the caresheet info, it will live and grow and eat... But are you doing everything you can???? I say up the heat a few degrees higher than the caresheets say and you will see a difference in a few days... Your leo will eat more, be more active, maintain a proper body weight, and colors will brighten up... I have even see a difference in egg production and health of offspring... Hatch rates even seem to have gotten better...

If you do not want to take my advice, thats fine... All I can do is give you info from my personal experiences and the experiences of other breeders and keepers who keep their animals like I do.... Look into it before you write it off...

In my opinion, your air temps and hotspot temps need to be considerably higher...

 

[Haligren]

Well, having since covered the tank's top in tinfoil and putting a towel underneath the warm end; my temps have risen steadily. Air temp is now, 86 on the warm end, 76 on the cool end, and the hot spot is 90.

Not too shabby, I don't think, but I'm going to get an adjustable thermostat and a piece of insulation anyway. It makes sense to me that the air temps should vary slightly from one end of the tank to the other - but never allowing that temp to fall below 65. And that the hotspot should be in the low 90s. Who knows, maybe all I'll need is that insulation just to bring the hotspot's temp up a bit more.

Thank you, everyone for your input. And I'm sure Tiamat thanks you too.

 

[Snowy & Petra de Gecko]

Gregg M

I can see that you are passionate about Leopard Geckos and I am not questioning your knowledge.

I realize that ambient air temps are important cause you can have a warm belly and still freeze.

You are right that Leopard Geckos do not need to be cycled and you are right that caresheets are severly lacking. Caresheets are very basic and so are the books that can be purchased that provide you the information needed to care for your Leopard Gecko. But, for beginners this is all that they have.

I realize that book knowledge is not as good as experience and you have the experience. The problem with the caresheets and the books is that the direct knowledge gained from the experience is lacking. This is due in part to the fact that Leopard Geckos have not been raised in capativity for very long and it is due to the fact that direct studies have not been done.

I would not write-off your advice and I appreciate the experience that you have and the fact that you are willing to share.

When you get your website up and running, I look forward to reading a caresheet that you will provide.

Thanks for your help.