AFT x Leo

[lepgeckosrock]

Ok Gazz you bring up the few cross breeds that have somewhat worked but have you forgotten one main one that has backfired and is threatening lives and economics? Someone had the bright idea of cross breeding some bees and now we have a major problem with them spreading taking over normal hives and causing people who rely on honey for a living to lose lots of money.They have showed many documentaries on them and alot of our southern states have bee farmers who can't sell there bees out of there area because they have be mixed with the very agressive bee. So my question is the bees were not aggressive till cross bred do you know for certian or with even 90% that if you did cross the AFT and Leo that it wouldn't do something to the offspring that would make them aggressive or give them undesireable traits?

 

[Stevie]

Well, the killer bees you're refering too are that aggressive because the normal honey bee was crossbred with a much more aggressive African bee. The aggressiveness isn't caused by the crossing itself, but one of the species used in the crossing was already known for it's aggressiveness if I'm not mistaking. But back to the AFT an leo crossing, no one will know what it'll bring, because no one ever succeeded in breeding the two species. I think it'll never happen by the natural way, but I don't know what some lab workers are able to do in this matter.

Greets,

Stevie

 

[Gazz]

Ok Gazz you bring up the few cross breeds that have somewhat worked but have you forgotten one main one that has backfired and is threatening lives and economics? Someone had the bright idea of cross breeding some bees and now we have a major problem with them spreading taking over normal hives and causing people who rely on honey for a living to lose lots of money.They have showed many documentaries on them and alot of our southern states have bee farmers who can't sell there bees out of there area because they have be mixed with the very agressive bee. So my question is the bees were not aggressive till cross bred do you know for certian or with even 90% that if you did cross the AFT and Leo that it wouldn't do something to the offspring that would make them aggressive or give them undesireable traits?

What you expecting from a leo x fattail ??.Something that grabs you nose till your dead ??.Thing is leo's & fattails are the same in nature so that is never a real issue.Ture African bees are aggesive anyway but are good with hot tempertures but euro bees are way more docile but can't cope with hot tempertuers this is the only way hot countrys could have productive bee hives in hotter countrys.They knew the African bees was agresive but they was hoping that the euro bee genes would mellow the aggesion down or out.And IT DOES but as a example only 1 out of 10 Africanized queen bees are whats know as a docile they didn't know this when it was needed.So it would have fully work if they plained it more.Problem hives can be sorted now by useing these Africanized docile queen bees in fact some bee keeper are now cashing in on these Africanized docile queens through selling them.The biggist problem with Africanized bees is there numbers they get to high that the problem.And that coz Africa has something the rest of the world doen't have and that's the Cape bee or Cape coukoo bee now if your not a African bee these are fairy friendly bees.Cape bees get into a African bee hive now coz there very closely related they don't set off alarm bells in the African bee hive.And once in there they start by killing the African queen the presant adult but also the next African queens to be.Then the cape bee queen starts laying cape bee eggs they fully take over the hive having the african workers do all there work till then all the African bees die.There are no African bees only cape bees then the cape queens with cape worker go to there next African hive and start again.That why Africa don't have problem with aggessive bees coz there number are kept in check.The bird called bee eater also helps and the honey badger plays it's part also.So hybridized bees aren't the problem coz there hybrids it's coz of were they live or more to the point where they shouldn't coz they have no enemys.There maybe some animal in other country that prey on Africanized bees but nott on the scale the the cape bee would.

 

[Stevie]

Still they're a big problem and it doesn't help our AFT x Leo discussion....

Greets,

Stevie

 

[fallen_angel]

I am not trying to be politically incorrect here, but... Black people are originally from Africa, Asians from Asia, and white people from Europe. They can all interbreed with no problems. Is it not possible that AFTs and leos came from similar origins and evolved through natural selection to fit their habitats?

People of today are all the same species, Homo sapiens. Species before us, such as Homo habilis and Homo rudolfensis are completely different species that cannot produce viable offspring together, or with us. Similarly in geckos, different species cannot make viable offspring, either. One of the factors that separates species is not being able to reproduce with one another (I took an evolutionary science class last semester)

 

[Stevie]

People of today are all the same species, Homo sapiens. Species before us, such as Homo habilis and Homo rudolfensis are completely different species that cannot produce viable offspring together, or with us. Similarly in geckos, different species cannot make viable offspring, either. One of the factors that separates species is not being able to reproduce with one another (I took an evolutionary science class last semester)

Than you probably learned during the same course that these rules are made up by humans to comprehend the complexity of nature and therefore are incorrect... And that other factors are:

-allopatric evolution
-geographical separation
-genetic differences
-not compatible copulatory behavior
-etc
-etc

What separates different species is one or more of these factors, but not all. It is therefore possible that different species (of a different genus even, for instance Lampropeltis x Pantherophus) produce fertile offspring (not only viable). They should count as the same species according to one definition of species, but aren't because of an other....

Greets,

Stevie

 

[fallen_angel]

you're right, mine was more generally speaking and it is possible.. I thought it would at least be valid in the case of the AFT X leopard gecko, though

 

[Stevie]

I know. I just posted it to make sure that it the term "species" is much harder to define than most people know. The fact that leos and AFT never produced a viable juvenile (up to my knowledge) sais enough...

Greets,

Stevie

 

[fallen_angel]

I agree completely Stevie

 

[fallen_angel]

the reason mine was more generally speaking is because the term species is very hard for me to define :main_yes: I think you explain things very well :main_thumbsup:

 

[Stevie]

And it's not even my native language... haha. I like these kinds of conversations very much!

Greets,

Stevie

 

[fallen_angel]

lol, yeah that's pretty impressive too!

I can tell that you like these types of conversations, I always see you around the forums giving very educated opinions and factual information for the side you stand on. :main_thumbsup: You are very helpful :main_yes: I like to stay away from debates that get too heated (most of the time) :argue: and for that reason, I didn't even read this thread for the longest time