Anyone want to comment in this thread please?

[LadyGecko]

I hope that this is permitted here-if it is not-I apologize
I just don't really feel up to addressing this subject of the use of calci-sand a second time in this thread that actually started out about a Hot female
I was wondering if any of you that might also belong to this particular forum would like to jump in on this thread

I am concerned by the last post by Leopard Lunatic about using calci-sand

I just am not feeling that great tonight and it really bugs me when people go to a board that is mostly used by people new to Leos and post this stuff about calci-sand

Thanks Guys
Sandy

here's the link

http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38185

 

[ReptileMan27]

Its sad but I see people like that alot , for some people it takes a dead animal before they will believe, I personally find that sad and irresponsible.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Nothing's wrong with using sand. Let me know when you've had problems with it.

 

[bcreptiles]

i am not going into this discusion again.
in think there are two group of leo-keepers. people that keep them on sand(play or calci) and people that don't.
i think both groups are the same size, and the same amount of leos are kept on sand(play or calci), as on carpet/towel,
let people make there own choices, and both groups should stop acusing each other of keeping there animals in the wrong way.
both sides love there animals,and it is not nice to say, that they don't.
just enjoy the animals in the best way you can. sand or no sand.:gossip: :gossip:

 

[LadyGecko]

My concern was not with the usage of regular sand
It is over using Calci-and or any sand which contains calcium that encourages a Leo to ingest the sand and which has been shown to not pass freely through their digestive system
With many instances of death from impaction from this substrate-I don't think that it is a very good idea to encourge it's use -especially to someone that is just starting out keeping Leos and has many questions about the best ways to keep them healthy
I understand and respect the fact that many people use play sand for their adult Leos but there is a big difference between plain sand and the sand(s) that they are selling that contain calcium

Sandy

 

[ReptileMan27]

Is this proof enough for you? http://homepage.mac.com/exoticdvm/reptile/PhotoAlbum181.html

Sand is NOT natural or safe for leos, why anyone would risk an animals life for something stupid is beyond me and irresponsible.

 

[gerryl]

quoted from another!

"It is important to remember that ALL loose, particulate substrates carry a risk of impaction as the gecko may scoop some up at swallow some when it is striking at insects.

Substrates to completely avoid at all costs are the calcium based sands that are marketed as being digestible. Calcium sands are not digestible, especially not for smaller reptiles like leopard geckos. When ingested the sand causes a blockage in the digestive tract that can lead to lethargy, weight loss, vomiting and eventual death.

The calcium content of the sand also actively encourages the leopard gecko to ingest it, which makes it the worst kind of the substrate you could possibly keep the animal on.

Other very bad substrates are wood chips/shavings, powdered walnut, gravel and paper granules (these will expand in the gut if ingested causing serious blockages).
Paper kitchen towels or newspaper makes an excellent substrate, paper towels are not loose and carry no risk of impaction. They are cheap, soft to touch and therefore comfortable for the gecko to sleep on and they make cleaning out time a breeze! All you need to do is remove it all and replace it… simple! Whilst they may not be much to look at, paper towels are convenient, safe and cheap.

Many people successfully keep their leopard geckos on play sand, but as I previously mentioned it still carries an impaction risk. Tiny amounts of play sand that are ingested do not pose too much of a problem as a few grains should pass through without causing a blockage, unlike larger amounts. An argument for keeping leopard geckos on sand is that it looks more natural.

However, the leopard gecko is native to India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran and can be found in arid, rocky areas. They do not naturally live on loose sand, which is why the loose dune-like sand that is provided in a tank or vivarium puts the animal at risk from impaction.

The natural substrate of a leopard gecko is rocky, hard and compacted earth with the merest dusting of loose particulate on the top. They are found during the day hiding in rocky crevices and under dead wood. So whilst sand may look more natural and appealing than paper towels, in reality it really isn’t much more natural at all. An ideal naturalistic substrate for leopard geckos would be slate tiles. Slate looks great, is easy to clean and conducts heat so your heat mat is still fine underneath it."

 

[Jeanne]

Who is the person that you quoted that from?

 

[ReptileMan27]

Who is the person that you quoted that from?

I dont know who he quoted it from but 100% correct and true:main_thumbsup:

 

[bcreptiles]

if seen those pics a million times already.
is there SOMEONE who has new pics.
the biggest problem is that people who use sand are too affraid to say so!!!!!!

 

[wilomn]

if seen those pics a million times already.
is there SOMEONE who has new pics.
the biggest problem is that people who use sand are too affraid to say so!!!!!!

I've used sand for over 20 years. I've kept leos as pets and I've bred them on sand. I have started babies on sand just to see if they would have problems and haven't had any. I've got leos now, about a dozen, that have never been on anything but sand. The oldest is 14.

I don't think calcisand is a good substrate, but regular old playsand is fine.

Over the years I've kept what has to be several hundred on sand.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

My New Year's resolution is to NOT get involved with substrate wars anymore.

 

[Jeanne]

My New Year's resolution is to NOT get involved with substrate wars anymore.

Good Idea, I am sure that you have had enough stress due to this one subject, you don't need any more. If someone asks about it again, just refer them to your "Search Fuction" thread :main_thumbsup:

 

[ReptileMan27]

My New Year's resolution is to NOT get involved with substrate wars anymore.

LOL great idea, I need to do the same, some people will never learn:main_no:

 

[LadyGecko]

So (no disrespect meant to anyone here) does that mean that substrate discussions are not to be encouraged here?
People are just supposed to use the search function and read the past threads?
I'm sorry that I brought it up but I think that anyone encouraging the use of calci-sand should be argued with
I value the experienced opinions of the keepers and breeders here-that is why I posted the link to that thread in the first place-so that anyone that wanted to might lend their knowledge and opinions based on years of keeping experience to help some newbies on that other forum not make a critical mistake in their Leos care/husbandry with the use of sands which contain calcium

I won't mention the subject again
my apologies for dredging up an unpleasant subject

Sandy

 

[ReptileMan27]

So (no disrespect meant to anyone here) does that mean that substrate discussions are not to be encouraged here?
People are just supposed to use the search function and read the past threads?
I'm sorry that I brought it up but I think that anyone encouraging the use of calci-sand should be argued with
I value the experienced opinions of the keepers and breeders here-that is why I posted the link to that thread in the first place-so that anyone that wanted to might lend their knowledge and opinions based on years of keeping experience to help some newbies on that other forum not make a critical mistake in their Leos care/husbandry with the use of sands which contain calcium

I won't mention the subject again
my apologies for dredging up an unpleasant subject

Sandy

The problem with this topic is that it never stays as a debate to long before it turns into a fight. The debate will never end aslong as their are people out their that feel just because they may have been lucky using sand that its safe. The facts are its NOT natural and its risky to use, so why risk the animals life?.

 

[nygeckoqn]

And here I was under the impression that this was a forum to come to for help.....Silly me...No wonder I don't frequent forums much. See, they used to be here for people to go to for help. Especially people new to the hobby. Sure they could read 1 of the thousands of care sheets out there. But face it , there are literally thousands of them and all of them different. I ,personally do tend to ask any questions on a forum where there are people who have experience as opposed to a care sheet. I find many of them not so acurate in their info. But if all you can do is direct someone to your search function. I really see no purpose to this forum at all.Excpet pehaps for all of you "BIG" breeders who obviously think of themselves as bothered by us"little people" questions.This forum is really just for you so you can all pat each other on the back for all the beautiful animals you produce...I can't take the animals beauty away from you But you could all use a wake up call...None of you are any more or less important than what you give to the community and I am not talking about just animals its more than that. I little compassion ofr the new comer. I can search the internet just as easily and not have to put up with people who are just a little too uptight. And i personally couldn't care if I hurt anyones feelings. Why should I ...none of you seem to care if you hurt other peoples feelings. Not to worry...I won't "stress" any of you out anymore...I'll be leaving now. I just thought you should know what you look like to us "little people" So important are you all that you can't be bothered to answer questions of us "little people"Yes I know this particular subject as been talked about over and over. But so what...will hurt you to answer it again and possibly educate another person. I guess you just don't really care all that much.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Robin, I think that was a pretty rough shot. You are entitled to your opinion so I will not argue that.

If someone were to come on this forum and ask for my opinion about using sand, I would give it.

To me it looked as if Sandy was coming here looking for re-enforcements. I have no intentions on going to another forum to give my unwanted opinion on the use of sand as a substrate. I am not saying that was Sandy's intention, just the way it appeared to me.

I belive that Sandy is an experienced enough keeper to make a valid argument about the use of sand.

 

[Jeanne]

I agree, that was pretty low Robin, the only reason I said to use the search tool was because there are a TON of threads on this forum already with a LOT of information on Sand as a substrate.

 

[Russ S]

I guess you just don't really care all that much.

Contrary to what you may think, most of the people here really do care about educating newcomers to the hobby. The problem, as I see it, isn't about educating another person about the possible problems that can arise when keeping any reptile on a substrait that can be ingested. The problem is that these types of threads usually end up with people that are polar opposites in their opinions argueing that their opinion is the only right one. I for one have kept leos both on sand and paper towels. I prefer paper towels because in my opinion they are safer. Again, that is just my opinion. The reason some here would point you to the search function is that there are plenty of threads on almost any board you go to about this issue. I think they feel that it is unnecessary for them to get into yet another futile arguement. You can anly bang your head on the keyboard for so long before you either hurt your head, or need a new keyboard.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Russ