Are We Killing Our Friends?

[Brhaco]

LOL, sorry Brad! I saw your post count (31) and mistook it for your age!!! You know, my vet has had 2 wild-caught leopard geckos for over 20 years, too.

Wow-could you please just ignore my last post and continue to spread that rumor?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Wow-could you please just ignore my last post and continue to spread that rumor?

HAHAHAHA!!!

 

[blizzard]

Obesity is a problem. Giants obviously are gonna be bigger. But if you think that your leo is getting too big and fat make sure it has various things to climb on at night so that it gets some exercise!! But obesity causes stress and ultimately will kill. Be a good friend let them live well.

 

[lil_katiedan]

I don't know if I would say that obesity is a wide-spread problem with Leos as some tend to be bigger and some are smaller. They are almost like humans in that there exists many different body types so saying that they shouldn't be "over 80 or 100" couldn't be applied to many of the bigger geckos. The only concern I have is regarding breeding and egg laying. Leaner, more fit females tend to lay a) more eggs and b) more fertile eggs than the fatter, more obese females. I have seen this occur many times. I have also seen that geckos who have been power-fed when younger or who are extremely fat (fed waxworms or whatever) have shorter life-spans. Of course I haven't done any formal testing on this theory but I have had many discussions with other breeders who tend to agree.

 

[fallen_angel]

I figured I would bring up a touchy but much needed subject. After the death of Moose, it got me thinking about weight issues with geckos. I know that all of us, including me, want to "plumpin" up our leos, but at what cost. I know gram weight is very important to breeding and sale, but I am starting to think that maybe our geckos should not exceed 100 grams for a male and 80 grams for a female. I'm not sure with the giant deal; but I know that with humans, giants usually are shorter than normal people due to overgrowth in the early years. Humans are just starting to understand the problems of obesity, maybe the symptoms are the same. I was just wondering you guys and gals thoughts.
Brent and Julie

Well to be honest, I didn't do anything to our male to make him so big.. he just grew to be big on his own, he's 116.7 grams, and I've never given him a pinkie or a wax worm in his entire life, nor have I ever tried plumping him up with loads of food. I think it would be harmful to him to try to get him under 100 grams, you can't change the natural size of something.

 

[david13]

i don't really know because my biggest leo is 70 grams (male) and it is full grown and it has a nice fat tail, it doesnt get much bigger.. my female is 58-65 and doesnt grow no more..so mine arent that big

 

[GeckoJunkie]

I think with leos it is two things to take into account. 1) Is the geckos genetics and what the parents (or line) that they come from helps determine what size they will end up. 2) The second one is the owner of the leo, I think we treat our geckos like we would any other pet. It makes us feel better to feed them and make the plump and robust. I think in peoples mind that a full and plump animal is a happy animal. I on the other hand like my geckos just a little on the lean side. Not skinny but healthy and lean. As far as lean I am speaking just not that huge tail!!

 

[MSMD]

I am very picky about my dogs' weights. We primarily have Great Danes, and any extra flab on a giant breed dog, in particular, can mean a big difference in life span (primarily heart function) and the probability of orthopedic problems.

That being said, I like to see a little chunkiness on my leos, but just mainly on the tail. I've seen some with actual 'rolls' on their bodies. Mine definitely don't have that. Particularly in my breeding females, though, I like that huge tail, just because I know they have those reserves since it takes so much out of them. It's hard to tell where to really draw the line here, I think. Hence, I voted undecided.

 

[fallen_angel]

I am very picky about my dogs' weights. We primarily have Great Danes, and any extra flab on a giant breed dog, in particular, can mean a big difference in life span (primarily heart function) and the probability of orthopedic problems.

That being said, I like to see a little chunkiness on my leos, but just mainly on the tail. I've seen some with actual 'rolls' on their bodies. Mine definitely don't have that. Particularly in my breeding females, though, I like that huge tail, just because I know they have those reserves since it takes so much out of them. It's hard to tell where to really draw the line here, I think. Hence, I voted undecided.

I agree, I think that a gecko can become too fat and fat rolls on a gecko aren't good in my opinion! It's always more comforting when the female has a nice fat tail, all throughout the season :heart: I have one female that has a nice fat tail when she is carrying (and before she started breeding), but as soon as she lays, her tail gets much skinnier (not anything major or unhealthy), but I still don't like it, lol

 

[Gecko Ranch]

I think there are a lot of doting mamas to our leopards and some really fat "kids" around...I don't dote (hand feed, overfeed) and I think my geckos are much better off because of it. Most of mine range in the 45-60g range (males a big bigger), are on the lean side and are active in their set-ups where they can run around a bit. Good points that some morphs are gonna be big like Moose was and these will weigh more than the typical leo.

We are probably inadvertently breeding for large size too because that is typical American...big hamburger, big car, big dog, big big big (ala Peter Gabriel!)....

We also have to remember geckos die suddenly not unlike people and there is not always any sense to make of it. Responsible gecko breeders who can afford it get the full necropsy done and pass along the info to everyone so we can avoid any possible mistakes, or pick up on signs that may have been present along the way. Sometimes there are no signs. We do what we can to understand then we move along.

I am glad someone brought this up as I feel we may be experiencing some health related issues with our leos and weight as more show up at vets.

 

[liljenn]

I did not vote, because I am new to geckos and don't know. But I have been following this post & there are a lot of good points made. My question is, given the feeding issue, what about exercise? I have been thinking a lot about this & since I have most of mine in my rack (15 qt tubs), I am always concerned about how much activity they get. At this point, I only have 5 and taking them out to explore at night is easy to do. But what do breeders with larger collections do to help them get "exercise"? And does it stress them out to much to put them in a different, larger enclosure to explore for short periods of time? (a "playground" or "exercise tank")

 

[brandy101010]

I voted yes. Obesity can be a problem in leopard geckos, in my opinion.
I don't think it is so much a problem with the geckos as it is a problem with the owners or breeders. We have control over what our animals eat. We are responsible for the health of our animals. It is our responsibility to keep our animals at a healthy weight to the best of our abilities.

Some breeders put weight on their animals on purpose to get an animal to "breeding weight"
owners with good intentions "spoil" their animals to show their love.

Obviously Giant Leopard geckos will weigh more then normal sized ones.

 

[Gecko Ranch]

Here's a pic of one of my Freedom breeder racks (far right):

Close up of clear drawers I use:

http://www.geckoranch.com/images/IMG_2797_b.jpg

and juvie rack:

Everyone can run around a bit. The adults can also see me and I can see them..that's the deal I made with them to keep 'em.

 

[JConley]

Well, when I was one, I was breeding dinosaurs! (neener, neener, neener!)

Im not going near that one!

 

[bubblez825]

If you think obesity is a problem, I have an idea: You make a gecko-sized treadmill that doesnt go too fast, and then get a peice of string an tie it to the handle of the "Gecko-mill" And hang a waxworm or mealie off the end of it so the gecko will be trying to get the worm.

 

[Halley]

I think that obesity can be controlled very easily, but just watching what you give you leos. Obviously if you give them too much, and you notice it makes them overweight, then you need to reduce the amount of food intake, for those leos. As far as leos that are larger in size, I think it just comes down to common sense, as to weather or not they are overweight, or just larger. As to weather or not we are killing our leos, well of course some people are a little irresponsible, and overfeed their leos. It is my opinion that overfeeding, and starving your leos is just as bad, that is just my opinion. Then on the subject of Moose, we really have no idea what could have caused him to pass. Like stated earlier, how much was he bred? What was he feed seems to be the big question? Are large leos, like large dogs, where they have a shorter life span? What kind of conditions was he kept in (http://www.leopardgecko.com/caging.html)? All of those questions have to be answered, before you can really reach a decision.

 

[bellicose]

"Target Weight"

I just typed up a nice long explanation for my post, then pressed backspace and it all disappeared. So here is a shorter one.

Human Doctors use a ratio of height to weight to find a "target weight". This is based on "healthy" people and helps decide if you are obese/overweight/or even underweight. If we could find this ratio for Leo's it would make it much easier to decide if they are over weight. It may be found that the " healthy" Leo's "target weight" varies a lot and this cannot be used. Also a good breeding leo may have a different target weight than ones that re not about to make babies.

Please ask me any questions about this.

 

[FelanMoira]

And a number doesn't always show obesity ...

Here's my Gollum --- stays around 104-110 grams

No powerfeeding, only has had waxies once. Fed mealies and occasional crickets.

He's just a large dude and not fat.

Then there is Smegal -- who stays around 96 grams and is fat. Fed the same way as Gollum. Same age as Gollum. Bought from same source, same day as Gollum.

 

[Gecko Ranch]

I just typed up a nice long explanation for my post, then pressed backspace and it all disappeared. So here is a shorter one.

Human Doctors use a ratio of height to weight to find a "target weight". This is based on "healthy" people and helps decide if you are obese/overweight/or even underweight. If we could find this ratio for Leo's it would make it much easier to decide if they are over weight. It may be found that the " healthy" Leo's "target weight" varies a lot and this cannot be used. Also a good breeding leo may have a different target weight than ones that re not about to make babies.

Please ask me any questions about this.

I feel your pain:main_angry: :main_laugh: I completely agree with your insights here:main_thumbsup: !

 

[bellicose]

Length?

How long are your two leo's, Felan? Smegal looks shorter than Gollum.