Are We Killing Our Friends?

[bohannbj]

I figured I would bring up a touchy but much needed subject. After the death of Moose, it got me thinking about weight issues with geckos. I know that all of us, including me, want to "plumpin" up our leos, but at what cost. I know gram weight is very important to breeding and sale, but I am starting to think that maybe our geckos should not exceed 100 grams for a male and 80 grams for a female. I'm not sure with the giant deal; but I know that with humans, giants usually are shorter than normal people due to overgrowth in the early years. Humans are just starting to understand the problems of obesity, maybe the symptoms are the same. I was just wondering you guys and gals thoughts.
Brent and Julie

 

[acpart]

I'm thinking about the difference between obesity and general large size. My biggest gecko is 113gr. at the moment and I'm pretty sure he's not a giant. He's large but not really *fat*. So maybe that would be OK? On the other hand, I don't really know whether there are layers of fat inside him that I can't see. I do like big chunky geckos but i've seen some at shows that do really look . . . wide . . . to me and don't seem healthy looking. As you can see, I'm thinking about it too but I don't have any firm conclusions.

Aliza

 

[DanTheFireman]

After going through literally thousands of imports in the early to mid 90s, most were on the lean side and none compared to the chunkers that many people (myself included) tend to prefer. They generally moved much faster and went into the "death roll" when they bit, like a Tokay. Like people, some tend to stay more lean and some pack on the grams. Extremes are usually harmful so we do occasionally let them out on our screened back patio for some cardio and try to keep the beer and chips to a minimum. As far as Moose is concerned, who knows? If a gecko dies in the wild we're unaware and I'd bet the average captive lifespan exceeds the wild. It is an interesting topic and worth further study.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I answered "undecided" because we really don't know why Moose passed. Perhaps by virtue of the fact he was so large, his lifespan may have been reduced... kind of of like large dogs having shorter lfespans than small dogs.

I can't imagine keeping leopard geckos in tubs without the amount of exercise they would get in the wild, or a steady diet of mealworms, or laying 10 clutches each season, would be good for them either... yet I know of people who have their leopard geckos in the range of 20 years. Heck, my very first male leo is now 12 years old and still weighs over 80 grams.... which is BIG for an old-school gecko!

The fact is, that leopard geckos in the wild don't eat a steady diet of crickets and mealworms. There aren't any where they come from!

 

[SteveB]

Moose could be anything. It's a specific trait that made him so large, not just the method of husbandry. His short lifespan could have been a result of either, or both, or a complete fluke.

I know most of us prefer to see our geckos aggressively eating as much as possible. That makes us feel good about ourselves.
I don't see us creating leopard gecko treadmills anytime soon. Or making leopard gecko racetracks with a mechanic waxworm guiding the fastest one to victory.

In all seriousness-
I also don't hear much talk about people giving their breeders a year off between breeding, either.


Our geckos are rarely raised or bred with ethics in mind.

 

[malt_geckos]

I answered no for myself because we have no obese geckos here. But I don't think it's a problem in the gecko world too much....like Dan said though, the older geckos(the first ones imported) were much healthier when it came to being obese. Some people like the rollie pollie geckos...myself included.

 

[GeckoStud]

I don't know, it certainly is an interesting topic to delve into. My biggest leo is about 83 grams, but was nearly 100 at one time. She seems more... I don't know agile now, a little more lively? I am all for chunky geckos, but just because she dropped about 20 grams doesn't mean she still isn't a fat lard, just a healthier one. Most of my leos are in the 60 to 70 gram range and seem to be ok, not overly big, but not small either. Don't get me wrong one day I would like to get a giant just to say I have a gecko over 100 grams to show off to surprized friends etc etc.

I think it may also have something to do with societies mentality that bigger is better. Deny it as you will but if given the choice between a 6 oz steak and a 12 oz for the same price your gonna take the bigger one.

 

[LizMarie]

Interesting topic, I actually believe that obesity is a problem in any species.

 

[Gecko]

Obesity is a problem and I would bet money that it causes health effects.

Now the thing is what's obese? For instance I'd argue a Leopard Gecko with a really fat tail is not obese because they've evolved to store fat. However, once that same fat starts getting deposited in the body maybe not. I had a male Fat tail who looked gravid at one point (i.e. white egg looking deposits) because he was obese. I put him on a diet, took him several months though to even start looseing the belly fat.

 

[eric]

Imo Mooses death could have been a number of things...stress...How much was he breeding him? and the weight issue i don't have any idea i am still learning all the other stuff..morphs..breeding...eggs...any way do we know how long some of these new morphs live. moose was giant or super giant ????? that's fairly new isn't it. we hear that the average life expectancy of a leopard gecko is about 15 years were those geckos fat?

 

[goReptiles]

Although, I am very fond of the giant and super giant morphs, I am weary about the true health status of the large sized gecko.

I do find that Moose's death could have been a variety of concerns, but who knows... I'm surethe large size didn't help any, especially if he was being overbred... But, that's in general I guess. Any over bred reptile can become stressed.

Although, I voted yes, now that I'm truly thinking about it, I'm undecided.

 

[Brhaco]

Also, remember that wild-caught geckos come in with a cornucopia of parasites, and have had to live with the added stress of a long annual lean season (dry or winter season). My first male leopard, Golem, was very thin as an import in 1978. But once treated for parasites and settled in, he quickly plumped up! His color got LOTS better as well. He lived 22 years in captivity, despite the fact he was fully adult when imported.

regards,
Brad Chambers

 

[SteveB]

Brad,

On the subject of obesity versus the added stress of a long annual lean season, which do you feel results in a greater reduction of lifespan?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Also, remember that wild-caught geckos come in with a cornucopia of parasites, and have had to live with the added stress of a long annual lean season (dry or winter season). My first male leopard, Golem, was very thin as an import in 1978. But once treated for parasites and settled in, he quickly plumped up! His color got LOTS better as well. He lived 22 years in captivity, despite the fact he was fully adult when imported.

WOW! You got your first leopard gecko when you were 1 year old? That's pretty cool!

 

[SteveB]

Now Marcia... when I was 1, I was breeding Diablo Blancos... kids these days can do anything they set their minds to.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Now Marcia... when I was 1, I was breeding Diablo Blancos... kids these days can do anything they set their minds to.

Well, when I was one, I was breeding dinosaurs! (neener, neener, neener!)

 

[Ccrashca069]

I was tossing western fence lizards into tanks when I was 1 lmao

 

[Brhaco]

WOW! You got your first leopard gecko when you were 1 year old? That's pretty cool!

??? Marcia-I was 18 in 1978. What makes you think I was 0ne?

Brad Chambers

 

[Brhaco]

Brad,

On the subject of obesity versus the added stress of a long annual lean season, which do you feel results in a greater reduction of lifespan?

In the wild? Neither. Predators would have to be number one by far, parasites second.

In captivity, obesity can definitely be a problem for nonbreeding "pet" geckos. I believe it would be very unusual for gex in an active breeding program to have a major problem with obesity.

Brad Chambers

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

??? Marcia-I was 18 in 1978. What makes you think I was 0ne?

LOL, sorry Brad! I saw your post count (31) and mistook it for your age!!! You know, my vet has had 2 wild-caught leopard geckos for over 20 years, too.