Baby Deformity?

[M_surinamensis]

Another was a gecko with eye issues where the problems did not improve but the gecko thrived and is now in the hands of a reptile rescue that does reptile shows with special needs reptiles for special need kids.

I really hope you don't mean Bonnie.

 

[Dog Shrink]

isn't this kinda like the tail kink arguement? If an animal is physically deformed on the outside, just how do you know how deep the deformities that you can't see run? Isn't that the kinda the whole point to culling? To remove all doubt that only healthy animals are being bred and raised?

Sure some of the deformities can be lived with but who are we to say what is livable? We don't walk in the gecko's feet... so how do we truly know. As a breeder of show rabbits we are taught by 4-H that any animal shown to be suffering physical defect is to be culled. The point is to raise healthy animals that you would be willing to stand behind proudly, ethically, and responsibly. If that means never paring those animals together than had a deformed offspring so be it, how do you know it's not genetic and it is incubation related deformaties? Is there really a way to know?

 

[Keira]

Im fifteen years old, you want me to kill my pet gecko just because she looks funny? I Know shes not in pain, because when she lost her tail last month it was obvious she was. I can tell the diffference in her appetite and mood.

I think this touches a tender spot because I have a disabled friend and I know he wouldnt like to have just been killed.

My gecko is cute in her own way and I only wanted advice on how to improve her quality of life, not be told over and over again to kill her.

Im not trying to be rude or ungratefull, but please, no more advice on killing her, just some help with her problems, anything I can do to make it easier for her, if she can ever be put on sand, how big should the crickets i give her be, things like that.

Thank you.

 

[Keith N]

I hate to say it but housing and general care advice was not what you were seeking in the original thread post. You were more looking for advice of how worried you were about her current health situation based on her deformity. What you should do is post a picture up and let everyone see how bad it is and then we can go from there. You know my stance and I know yours and I guess that will never change.

 

[Imperial Geckos]

Im fifteen years old, you want me to kill my pet gecko just because she looks funny?

I hatched her myself and she doesn't ever apear to be in pain.

Keira, being 15 years old has nothing to do with this. If you bred her, as a breeder you should should know that a gecko that is deformed and a gecko that does not thrive will have a low quality life, And it is better to be put down.

I Know shes not in pain, because when she lost her tail last month it was obvious she was.

Reptiles do not show emotion. One can tell when a reptile is sick because of behavior, stools, and eating patterns. Also, your geckos tail detaching is something natural your geckos does when threatened and when trying to run away from predators. It does not hurt them.

 

[Jordan]

Im fifteen years old, you want me to kill my pet gecko just because she looks funny? I Know shes not in pain, because when she lost her tail last month it was obvious she was. I can tell the diffference in her appetite and mood.

I think this touches a tender spot because I have a disabled friend and I know he wouldnt like to have just been killed.

My gecko is cute in her own way and I only wanted advice on how to improve her quality of life, not be told over and over again to kill her.

Im not trying to be rude or ungratefull, but please, no more advice on killing her, just some help with her problems, anything I can do to make it easier for her, if she can ever be put on sand, how big should the crickets i give her be, things like that.

Thank you.

I completely understand your point, but if you hatched her, then that makes you a breeder.

And before going into breeding it is VERY important that you know how to deal with defmorities and you understand the need of culling. If you didnt research on these topics before going into breeding then this is what happens, you get stuck with adeformed animal that you have now became attached to and should have been culled.
Im sorry that we are all suggesting to kill it and i know thats not what you want to do and i understand, but this is an important part of breeding and you should have known that before getting into breeding and if you dont like this part of the breeding then im afraid maybe its not for hobby for you.
Breeding isnt alll glory of beautiful cute geckos hatching, and if your not willing to cull and do the negative responsibilities of breeding then im afraid you have to make the decision of whether you want to carry on as a breeder.

But as i have said i understand the situatiion you are in and im not asking you to kill a gecko your obviously fond of, but future deformed hatchlings you get should be culled and if your not willing to do so then you shouldnt be hatching them.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Be glad you're not in 4-H, 'cause if you were, you're taught at 5 as a clover bud responsible ethical breeding practiced which includes culling. It's not pretty but it is for a greater good. Once you start going for some of the higher rankings in 4-H like royalty, not only are you expected to perform this but you're expected to teach it as well. BTW 18 is the cut off for 4-H so none of these kids are much older than you and the ones doing royalty projects are 14-16 or younger.

Relating this to your deformed friend is not the same. First was your friend born with this deformity as some type of genetic defect or was it the results fo some accident in life? We as humans have the ability to say when and where it hurts, communicate our discomfort in globally understandable terms, whereas our animal friends can not, and if at some point in life it becomes too much to bear we can choose to end our suffering. Our pets can not.

Obviously the choice is yours in the end, all we're trying to do is explain what the ethical thing would have been.

Im fifteen years old, you want me to kill my pet gecko just because she looks funny? I Know shes not in pain, because when she lost her tail last month it was obvious she was. I can tell the diffference in her appetite and mood.

I think this touches a tender spot because I have a disabled friend and I know he wouldnt like to have just been killed.

My gecko is cute in her own way and I only wanted advice on how to improve her quality of life, not be told over and over again to kill her.

Im not trying to be rude or ungratefull, but please, no more advice on killing her, just some help with her problems, anything I can do to make it easier for her, if she can ever be put on sand, how big should the crickets i give her be, things like that.

Thank you.

 

[Khrysty]

I have a disabled friend and I know he wouldnt like to have just been killed.

Kiera:
Please note that the following advice comes from an active advocate for animal rights, and from a woman who runs a leopard gecko rescue and rehabilitation facility, as well as a breeder.

That being said, I'd like you to understand that a disabled human is not the same as a disabled animal.

Here is why: your friend is an animal with higher brain function. Not only can he understand pain and pleasure, not only does he have desires and fears, but he can contemplate these things. Your friend is able to consider the consequences of his life, to plan for the future, and to understand the difference of life and death. This is why it is cruel to kill a human at all, regardless of his or her relative physical capabilities.

A leopard gecko cannot consider anything. It's primary functions are survival (food, water, shelter) and reproduction. It would make no difference to the animal whether it lived or died, because it cannot consider the consequences of either. What we can know is that a deformed animal has a difficult time performing either or both of those primary functions. It can develop even more difficulties as it gets older, to the point where these functions are permanently impaired. Most breeders, as an act of compassion or a simple belief of their "duty" to keep the gene pool clean, will cull an animal at the first sign of severe deformity. This is NOT animal cruelty. It is simply a prevention of future suffering, which IS cruel.

I am not telling you to kill your pet. What I am saying is that your pet may be in pain that you don't understand, and that putting it down may be the most humane thing you can do at this point. If it seems like your pet is getting more sluggish, is unable to eat on its own, or is unable to drink water, it is time to call your vet and discuss euthanization. If it does not ever get to this point, then proper husbandry is the only thing you can do to minimize discomfort.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Keira, a few questions for you please Do the baby parents have anything like a kinked tail or different looking eyelids, or anything else slightly not normal? What are you doing with the other babies? What is your purpose for breeding? Do you have an ongoing goal as a gecko breeder?

The reason I ask these questions is, you have every opportunity to learn some very valuable information on this forum as how to become a responsible leopard gecko breeder. When you ask for people's opinions, you should be prepared to move past things you disagree with. That is the mature thing to do. Breeding animals involves a degree of heartache, sometimes they suffer. I sincerely hope you learn a lot from your little girl, and hopefully don't let this happen in the future. I'm not saying cull her, but learn, gain some experience, and under NO circumstances should she ever be bred.

 

[Khrysty]

I'm not saying cull her, but learn, gain some experience, and under NO circumstances should she ever be bred.

:main_thumbsup:

 

[Keira]

Im not a breeder, these babies were an accident, I didnt realize I had a male and a female, the pet store told me they were both female when I got them. I didnt even think these eggs were going to hatch, it was all fluke. I have seperated my adults and she's all by herself so nothing will happen to her. This is Midge. I really think that these deformities arent extreme enough to resort to killing. The only thing thats really noticable is the bump on her head and the curve in her back ( which is not as bad as it looks in the picture ). If I never said how old she was you would just thing she was newly hatched. I will learn how to handle her on my own. Now its really come down to defending her life. Once again no disrespect, I know where I stand here.

 

[Eureka]

I'm quite sensitive when it comes to the subject of euthanizing disabled pets. Obviously quality of life is the main factor in deciding whether to take a seriously injured or disabled animals life away. There are some signs you can look for that can hint pain. Lethargy, agitation, possibly not eating well or having no interest in hunting, favoring a limb.

Have you considered having her checked out by a qualified reptile veterinarian to get a professional opinion on the matter by someone who can see her in action? A vet may also have suggestions for any special care she will need. Just a thought. If you can provide your general location we can probably help you find a vet.

Scoliosis can be extremely painful and cause other problems.

 

[Keith N]

Maybe you could breed that back and come up with the first unicorn leopard morph, who knows. What makes you a professional to know if the animal is not suffering enough? That is all anyone is trying to say.

 

[Jordan]

Im not a breeder, these babies were an accident, I didnt realize I had a male and a female, the pet store told me they were both female when I got them. I didnt even think these eggs were going to hatch, it was all fluke. I have seperated my adults and she's all by herself so nothing will happen to her. This is Midge. I really think that these deformities arent extreme enough to resort to killing. The only thing thats really noticable is the bump on her head and the curve in her back ( which is not as bad as it looks in the picture ). If I never said how old she was you would just thing she was newly hatched. I will learn how to handle her on my own. Now its really come down to defending her life. Once again no disrespect, I know where I stand here.

whu...?
did the egg accidentally fall into some incubation material, and accidentally sit in an incubator in a tub until it accidnetally hatched?
If you didnt want the egg you should have got rid of it properly.

And what? 'If I never said how old she was you would just thing she was newly hatched'
Soo... your sayng if we dnt know the age then we'd think she's very young, so basically she looks a lot younger thanv what she is?
well then there's your problem, her deformities have stopped her growing properly...

 

[Khrysty]

Kiera, we aren't going to argue with you about whether or not the most humane thing is to put her down or keep her alive. We all gave you our opinions, and that is all we can do.

Everyone who hasn't voiced their opinion but has a different one than those of use who've spoken already should have a right to. That being said, if we're just going to be repeating ourselves, we really need to stop. Kiera may be a teenager, this may be an "accident" (however she'll define it), but all we can really do is hope that she'll learn from her mistake and that she won't let it happen again. Whether she culls the animal or not is not our decision to make

Good luck with her, and I wish you well. Let us know if any other problems arise and we'll try and help to the best of our abilities.

 

[Jordan]

Kiera, we aren't going to argue with you about whether or not the most humane thing is to put her down or keep her alive. We all gave you our opinions, and that is all we can do.

Everyone who hasn't voiced their opinion but has a different one than those of use who've spoken already should have a right to. That being said, if we're just going to be repeating ourselves, we really need to stop. Kiera may be a teenager, this may be an "accident" (however she'll define it), but all we can really do is hope that she'll learn from her mistake and that she won't let it happen again. Whether she culls the animal or not is not our decision to make

Good luck with her, and I wish you well. Let us know if any other problems arise and we'll try and help to the best of our abilities.

Thats well said.
Kiera we gave our opinions, sorry you didnt like it, but i hope you get on well with your gecko
And if it was an accident i hope measures have been taken to stop it happening again.

I hope your gecko ISNT in pain, like you say, as that obviously would be the better case and i hope he lives a normal life