Blackhole het Talbino to Mack Raptor - What is this baby??

[TradeExotics]

Hi guys,

So I've bred a Blackhole het Talbino male to Mack Raptor female and somehow, I've produced this little fella.

What I'm confused about is that I believe all babies should be eclipse, but the eyes on this guy are normal? They are dark but I can still see the normal pupil type thing?

It's definitely carrying Enigma, but can anyone shed any light? Am I wrong in thinking that the above adults would only produce eclipse hatchlings?

Thanks

 

[RampantReptiles]

Are you 100% sure that the parents are correct? That your black hole is in fact eclipse and not an enigma that happens to have eye pigment?

Have you shined a light and looked real close to the eye? It could just be a low % snake eye.

 

[TradeExotics]

Hey, I'm certain of the parents as I've proved them through various other breedings. Also from this same breeding I've produced Novas and Dreamsickles. I haven't shone a light in his eye though. If we assume it does have eclipse, does this look like a standard Enigma Eclipse to you?

Much appreciated. Thanks

 

[RampantReptiles]

Looks to have a white nose like eclipses do, so yeah my vote is that it is a Bee

 

[TradeExotics]

This is really bugging me - I've had another look at this guy and shone a light into his eye. The eye looks no more than a normal enigma eye and I can't see any trace of eclipse.

I've also had a browse on other forums and someone else is showing a pic of their enigma baby here: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizard-classifieds/333971-09-leopard-gecko-sale-list.html

It looks almost identical to mine and they are saying it's a ruby eyed enigma?

I just don't get it, the adult female is without doubt a Mack Raptor, the male is just obviously a Blackhole, very peppery looking with solid black eyes.

Do you know if their eyes change over time?

 

[justindh1]

He looks to be just an Enigma to me. White nose tips aren't always a specific indicator to eclipses. I have seen normals with whiter noses than typical. Congrats on the healthy baby!

 

[RampantReptiles]

could you post an eye pic?
Even if the eye had no pigment an eclipse eye is lighter in color than a normal so it should be obvious that it is eclipse.

 

[katie_]

How can you tell its enigma?

 

[TradeExotics]

Unfortunately I can't seem to get a good eye picture, the light is shining on its eye and makes it look solid black, but it's not.

In answer to Katie - the pattern show's it's a pretty obvious enigma.

To Justin - I am leaning towards a simple Enigma as well, but according the genetics, that's impossible as both parents are eclipse.

Does anyone know for a fact if the eclipse gene is a simple recessive??

 

[RampantReptiles]

Yeah, but some people have had eclipse eyed animals that were not genetic. This seems unlikely if you have hatched many other eclipses from this pair.

 

[TradeExotics]

Yeah that's the weird thing, I've hatched dreamsickles, novas and blackholes from this mating but in fairness only 5 hatched so far so it could be that one of the adults is more of a carrier than the real deal.

I've got a proper camera being borrowed next week so I'll try my best to take pictures then and post them. I'll also post pics of the parents so you can see.

Thanks

 

[StellarExotics]

Sometimes you just get the short end of the stick. Happened to me this year, I paired my Mack snow enigma het Phantom to my Raptor female... out of 6 eggs, ONE made it... (first two slugs, 2nd had one slug one good, and 3rd clutch she laid BEHIND her hide, and couldn't save them... )

I hatched a NORMAL. Happy, healthy, full of energy, but NORMAL.

 

[TradeExotics]

Hey,

I'm not too sure how you can have a Mack Snow Enigma het Phantom as a Phantom is a Tug Snow Talbino Hypo? Assuming it was het Talbino and Hypo and you paired to your Raptor then you definitely drew the short straw! That's a 12.5% chance of a plain old normal! Still - at least there is a chance.

With mine, eclipse to eclipse is supposed to give 100% eclipse babies - so how have I not got an eclipse? Either - I have and I just can't see it yet? Or the adults are not eclipse but I have proved them with other hatchlings - or, the eclipse gene is not simple recessive?

 

[StellarExotics]

I say het phantom because the pairing was a Mack Snow Enigma x Phantom pairing... Therefore my Mack snow enigma is essentially het TUG snow, tremper albino, and hypo aka phantom.
and yes... short straw for sure. The eyes look normal to me, and unless enigma babies can be banded, it's a normal... the only "different" thing about this baby is the colours are super bright, and tail is very dark.

cheers.

 

[TradeExotics]

Hey Guys,

So I got a proper little studio set up and took some photos of the geckos. Now, the female adult Mack Raptor is without doubt eclipse but unfortunately I don't have pics of her. Below is the picture of the adult male:

Then below another photo of the baby.

So, what do you reckon now?

Thanks

 

[TradeExotics]

Anyone??