Bold Stripe Question's

[ChaoticGecko]

Now i'm sure this has all been covered a hundred times, but i'm missing the threads on this, so if somethings already been done, just point me in the right direction. First and foremost, I already have one gravid female (she came to me this way), and no plans on breeding any others this season (i keep telling myself this, but god the possibilities seem so awesome), but the genetics behind the stripes are a bit confusing. And i'd like to just get a perspective on what possibilities i may have.

I know its line bred, similar too or the same genes as the jungle look, but when you breed a bold stripe, or reverse stripe to a non-striped animal, do the offspring have a chance of carrying the stripe, or just the genes to produce a stripe in the next generation, i.e. "het stripe".

I've spent years fascinated with the idea of breeding someday, but always focused on pythons, i mean the bigger the better use to be my philosophy when it came to reptiles. lol.

anyways, i'm sorry again if this has been covered a 100 times, but there are so many pages to read through, just point me in the right direction and i'll be on my way.

 

[sheffernan13]

Regarding this topic I have heard different things from different people.

Through breeding I have determined on my own accord that it acts more like a recessive trait. Breeding a Bold Stripe to a normal, threw me a couple of jungle looking animals and some that looked normal.

This year I am breeding one of the babies back to her father to see if it produces striping.

I spoke with Jeff Jr. at JMG and he says that he finds that it is true to the polygenic trait. That breeding one to a normal will produce striping, but not great striping. THe farther you take it the better they get.

 

[robin]

from my breedings i feel the gene is a recessive trait but the quality of the stripe, the boldness and color are polygenic. in other words i can make noemal animals het for stripe. how bold they are, how much hypoing out they do and the color is polygenic.

 

[ChaoticGecko]

Regarding this topic I have heard different things from different people.

Through breeding I have determined on my own accord that it acts more like a recessive trait. Breeding a Bold Stripe to a normal, threw me a couple of jungle looking animals and some that looked normal.

This year I am breeding one of the babies back to her father to see if it produces striping.

I spoke with Jeff Jr. at JMG and he says that he finds that it is true to the polygenic trait. That breeding one to a normal will produce striping, but not great striping. THe farther you take it the better they get.

okay, that makes sense. i've seen stripes, het stripe's, and stripex(whatever morph) and wasn't sure exactly how the trait worked. i have a couple bold stripe male, a mack snow bold stripe male, and bold stripe female, among the group, and was trying to figure out what possibilities there were with them and the others. is the same true for hyperxanthic? some of them are obvious, and i will eventually figure it out through trial, but right now i'm busy trying to understand how all these genes work. lol

 

[ChaoticGecko]

from my breedings i feel the gene is a recessive trait but the quality of the stripe, the boldness and color are polygenic. in other words i can make noemal animals het for stripe. how bold they are, how much hypoing out they do and the color is polygenic.

that makes sense. out of my personal collection the bold stripes are by far my favorites, the lavender stripes my second. I'm patiently hoping the gravid lavender stripe het raptor produces a tremper lavender stripe. she was bred to the same, so the chance is there. lol.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The bold stripe is a line-bred, polygenic trait. It is not a simple recessive, and there is no 'het' for stripe. It works more like the 'hypo' gene, where you can cross a hypo with a patterned gecko and many of the offspring will hypo out. I'm sure this will start an argument, but JMG, Geckos, Etc., and myself are in consensus.

 

[robin]

The bold stripe is a line-bred, polygenic trait. It is not a simple recessive, and there is no 'het' for stripe. It works more like the 'hypo' gene, where you can cross a hypo with a patterned gecko and many of the offspring will hypo out. I'm sure this will start an argument, but JMG, Geckos, Etc., and myself are in consensus.

i guess the verdict is now in.

nice to see you back on the boards and posting marcia...

 

[ChaoticGecko]

The bold stripe is a line-bred, polygenic trait. It is not a simple recessive, and there is no 'het' for stripe. It works more like the 'hypo' gene, where you can cross a hypo with a patterned gecko and many of the offspring will hypo out. I'm sure this will start an argument, but JMG, Geckos, Etc., and myself are in consensus.

Okay, i think i understand. lol. i definantly don't want to start any fights. and i have to say you produce some awesome animals. My new family is made up mostly of leo's produced by you and the guys over at jmg. so when i'm ready to start trying out producing bold stripe snow bells, i have an idea where to start.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

LOL, I didn't mean YOU would start a fight, I meant that not all people who work with bold stripes agree and it makes for interested debate.

 

[ChaoticGecko]

LOL, I didn't mean YOU would start a fight, I meant that not all people who work with bold stripes agree and it makes for interested debate.

yeah, i've read so many different views on it, i was hoping for a unified answer haha. no luck, but all the answers do make sense in different ways. is the same true for hyperxanthic? i saw jmg i think it was had a bold stripexhyperxanthic, and they were some pretty awesome animals. If i ever do get around to breeding these guys, it'll take me another season to decide which should go where, other then the most obvious ones. lol. Anyways, i'm into politics real big, so anytime i can get a heavy debate going, i'm a happy campersv:main_thumbsup:

 

[TokayKeeper]

The trait, at least from stock via Ron Tremper, is weird. Ron originally reported it as "recessive" to jungle and that the striped trait originated from jungles. I'm still not certain if it's polygenic like hypos and tangerines. At times the trait acts co-dominant, at other times is behaves like incomplete dominance, and yet other times it functions almost like a simply, single-gene, recessive mutation.

I'm running tests yet again, thought this time with the Rainwater gene. I ran this same test in 2001 and 2002 with the Tremper albino gene bred into a couple different striped females and a lone striped male to produce double "hets". I hatched out a lone jungle albino from breeding "hets" from 2001 in 2002. The het pairings in 2002 produced no other jungles and the rest were stripes, normals, or albinos, but no striped albinos. Unfortunately I didn't keep the crossing going beyond 2002 as I drastically down sized my collection to focus on college when I moved to NMSU's main campus Fall of 2002. My genetics professor in Spring 2004 was actually intrigued by the genetics (she was a fruitfly genetics nut) and was going to work with me on testing the various traits until I got offered to do a paid herpetological inventory of Carlsbad Caverns National Park. I don't regret doing the survey either, as I found New Mexico's 2nd or 3rd (literature has me confused on which it is)scientifically documented gray-banded kingsnake and definitely the Caverns' 2nd alterna.

Longwindedness aside...

The current project, I paired these 2 last year.

The result were these 2 hold backs. (see attachments) They don't appear to be acting like the hypo gene....

I'll be repeating the pairing again this season. My geckos just started ovulating; I start later.

 

[KelliH]

Excellent post TokayKeeper!

 

[TokayKeeper]

LOL...I'm just waiting on grumpy old gecko lady (HI Marcia, the patternless I got from you a few years ago is doing great) to post. I need to hit the archive and find posts from way back when with me and Steve Sykes talking about it. The striped gene(s) make my brain hurt.

 

[ChaoticGecko]

LOL...I'm just waiting on grumpy old gecko lady (HI Marcia, the patternless I got from you a few years ago is doing great) to post. I need to hit the archive and find posts from way back when with me and Steve Sykes talking about it. The striped gene(s) make my brain hurt.

First off, outstanding leo's tokay keeper. If i wanted to pair anything up i wouldn't know where to start. And congrats on the king snake find. sounds like the survey was an opportunity too good to miss.

back on topic, i've always wanted to try breeding, but i always thought i'd try with bp's to eventually burmese's pythons, but living in an apartment, and the prices on some of the morphs to jump in to start. but when it comes to studying bp genetics, though not that different the gecko's, still so much easier to understand. the gecko's just have more potential with polygenetics (is that even a word? lol) and line traits. so when i got these bolds, all i knew was i wanted to work with them. lol. thanks for all the insight guys....keep it coming. the more i learn the better. I'd attach pics, but the images are too large, their old anyways from the original owner.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

LOL...I'm just waiting on grumpy old gecko lady (HI Marcia, the patternless I got from you a few years ago is doing great) to post.

I'm not just the 'grumpy old gecko lady'... I'm MEAN!

When it comes to stripes in albinos, the Bell albino seems to be the best to work with. Second would be Tremper, and lastly the Rainwaters since they tend to 'hypo out' as they mature. In any case, with my experience working with stripes, the nicest bold stripe albinos come from striped hets.

What I mean when saying that the stripe gene works more like the hypo gene is not to say that stripes will become hypos or vise-versa. More specifically, these line-bred traits behave similarly. For example, the more hypo traits involved in a pairing of a hypo with a patterned parent, many of the offspring will tend to lean more towards the 'hypo' - losing it's pattern as it matures. There is really no "het hypo".

Likewise, the striped non-albino is a line-bred trait, with years of selective breeding to cross the most striped offspring with others, or back to the striped parent in order to create the cleanest reproducible pattern possible. Offspring may carry the genetic tendency to be striped even if it doesn't express it, but it is not a simple recessive genetic morph and therefore does not produce a 'het'.

Just to throw a wrench in the works, with non-albino bold stripes the "stripe" and the "bold" are two separate traits that happen to go very well together!

 

[ChaoticGecko]

Just to throw a wrench in the works, with non-albino bold stripes the "stripe" and the "bold" are two separate traits that happen to go very well together!

okay, makes sense. i always just assumed the bold stripe was selective breeding of regular stripes with more width (?). how does the bold behave with out the stripes? Now i feel like i need to add a few more gecko's to the collection. I don't know if i have the patience to wait for all the education then generations of breeding to hatch out my own bold stripe bell. I have the "i want it now" itch. lol

 

[BiKA]

Great topic.Last year i bred my bold stripe male to my mack snow bell female to start a bold stripe mack snow project.I only manage to get six offsprings from that pairing.1 mack snow male,2 hypo females and 3 normal females.So far form my limited knowledge on morphs,hypo is polygeneic trait.i don't know how they manage to produce 2 hypo offsprings since both the parents has no hypo visual.i m going to breed 1 of the normal female back to the father and the rest to the mack snow male sibling.i will just have to wait for the 2nd season result to see how my ''het'' bold stripe works in couple on months time.
I do notice the normals offspring patterns are getting bolder now.this pics were taken few months back.
The sire,

The dam,

And their offsprings.

 

[robin]

I'm not just the 'grumpy old gecko lady'... I'm MEAN!

When it comes to stripes in albinos, the Bell albino seems to be the best to work with. Second would be Tremper, and lastly the Rainwaters since they tend to 'hypo out' as they mature. In any case, with my experience working with stripes, the nicest bold stripe albinos come from striped hets.

What I mean when saying that the stripe gene works more like the hypo gene is not to say that stripes will become hypos or vise-versa. More specifically, these line-bred traits behave similarly. For example, the more hypo traits involved in a pairing of a hypo with a patterned parent, many of the offspring will tend to lean more towards the 'hypo' - losing it's pattern as it matures. There is really no "het hypo".

Likewise, the striped non-albino is a line-bred trait, with years of selective breeding to cross the most striped offspring with others, or back to the striped parent in order to create the cleanest reproducible pattern possible. Offspring may carry the genetic tendency to be striped even if it doesn't express it, but it is not a simple recessive genetic morph and therefore does not produce a 'het'.

Just to throw a wrench in the works, with non-albino bold stripes the "stripe" and the "bold" are two separate traits that happen to go very well together!

tell me more about stripe albinos, RAPTORS and reversed stripe albinos. i would like to hear your opinion.

 

[ChaoticGecko]

Great topic.Last year i bred my bold stripe male to my mack snow bell female to start a bold stripe mack snow project.I only manage to get six offsprings from that pairing.1 mack snow male,2 hypo females and 3 normal females.So far form my limited knowledge on morphs,hypo is polygeneic trait.i don't know how they manage to produce 2 hypo offsprings since both the parents has no hypo visual.i m going to breed 1 of the normal female back to the father and the rest to the mack snow male sibling.i will just have to wait for the 2nd season result to see how my ''het'' bold stripe works in couple on months time.
I do notice the normals offspring patterns are getting bolder now.this pics were taken few months back.
The sire,

The dam,

And their offsprings.

when i go back and look at my guys thats pretty much the same combination i had in mind originally, i also been thinking i have a striped mack snow male, he's not bold, but has some nice lavender and pale yellow i think would work nice in snow bells stripes. but i still got a long way to go before i even think about trying any of this lol. just thinking ahead. those babies are awesome, i'll have to keep an eye out on the progress of that project lol.

 

[ChaoticGecko]

tell me more about stripe albinos, RAPTORS and reversed stripe albinos. i would like to hear your opinion.

that definantly saves me starting another thread, my reverse stripe is gravid, so you know those questions were coming up next lol.