Breeding Giants but not Dwarfs?

[Jordan]

I just want to say before hand that this is just a point im interested in and not meant for an argument.

but it is considered wrong to breed a dwarf gecko right?
a dwarf gecko wouldnt be bred in case its genetic, and its a deformity? right?

but then how come giants were okay to breed? Surely its the same, but just in the other direction. ..?


i dont want this to cause a stir but if anyone has an answer im interested to know

Cheeers.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Well hon I think what it is is the dwarfing gene that causes problems. Like in rabbits for example, If I were to breed 2 of my netherland dwarf rabbits and both parents had the dwarfing gene (insted of just being a small rabbit with out the dwarfing gene) I would have a whole litter of "penuts" which are basically embrios that never get past the zygot stage. They're pretty gross.

As far as breeding a TRUE dwarf the dwarfing gene causes a WHOLE myriad of genetic problems best left aone. Now if you were just breeding NORMAL small leos with out a dwarfing gene to get a smaller leo to call a "Dwarf" then I don't see how that would be unethical but I think that is how the giants came about... breeding excessively large leos to eachother to produce above average sized leos that were consistant in type and size.

 

[MellowMan24]

many dwarfs have ALOT of problems. some that i know of are some of them cant absorb calcium and vitamins, and if dwarfs produce eggs there is a higher chance they can become egg bound due to their small size. all this information is just what i've heard from others. some one else will say whether i'm right or wrong or add on to my answer.

 

[Jordan]

okay cheers for your answers, i guess i understand. Its just i know of some people with dwarf geckos that dont have any problems, so if they were to breed them and make a dwarf gene with no related problems...? Im sure someone on this forum actually had a dwarf gecko as well actually. Cant remember who it was, but if they see this theyll probably mention.

So ive got a small gecko, its not much smaller than normal sized, but next to a normal sized its noticably smaller, how would i know if its a dwarf or just a small gecko? because i dont want to be really called unethical for test breeding this gecko to find out if its small or a dwarf. And if it is just a small gecko do you reckon years of line breeding can make a polygenic trait of a smaller gecko?
and last of all my other point what if people with dwarfs with no problems, bred for a dwarf gene that carries with it no issues, so its just basically the same as giant but its dwarf.

 

[Khrysty]

okay cheers for your answers, i guess i understand. Its just i know of some people with dwarf geckos that don't have any problems, so if they were to breed them and make a dwarf gene with no related problems...? I'm sure someone on this forum actually had a dwarf gecko as well actually. Cant remember who it was, but if they see this they'll probably mention.

So ive got a small gecko, its not much smaller than normal sized, but next to a normal sized its noticably smaller, how would i know if its a dwarf or just a small gecko? because i dont want to be really called unethical for test breeding this gecko to find out if its small or a dwarf. And if it is just a small gecko do you reckon years of line breeding can make a polygenic trait of a smaller gecko?
and last of all my other point what if people with dwarfs with no problems, bred for a dwarf gene that carries with it no issues, so its just basically the same as giant but its dwarf.

There is a BIG difference between a small gecko and a dwarf gecko. Look at people. You notice that dwarfed people have sort of shorter limbs, a regular torso, regular or largish head? It just looks sort of off, ya know? Whereas just a very short person, who is directly proportional, would not be considered "dwarfed," only small?

Well the same with dwarfed geckos. They have a shortish body, and regular limbs and head. They don't quite look right. And obviously they are smaller than a normally sized gecko. Do a search for "spider." That gecko is a good example of a dwarf gecko. A small gecko would look just like any other gecko, except he/she would be smaller.

A dwarf gecko shouldn't be bred because, like humans, geckos will this sort of gene can end up with a myriad of problems, as mentioned above. A smallish gecko, IMO is still not the best to breed if it can't reach at least 45g. There can still be complications with egg binding and such if it ends up laying regular sized eggs.

EDIT: I am in no way suggesting that humans who have a similar genetic issue should be prevented from having their own children. Since we are all capable of making our own decisions, there needn't be anyone there to monitor us. With animals, however, we have to be their decision makers. And we should never make a decision that could potentially harm another creature.

 

[acpart]

There are geckos who have been medically tested and determined to be a type of dwarf. There are others who are suspected dwarves due to their size and relative proportions, as mentioned. I do think that the biggest issues are whether these geckos can pass eggs safely (you can't give a gecko a C-section) and whether they'll pass on associated feeding and shedding difficulties that seem to afflict some of them.

Aliza

 

[Dog Shrink]

Altho, and I'm speaking on dwarfism in animals based on my experiences breeding Netherland Dwarf rabbits which do carry a dwarfing gene recessively. I have a litter now of 2 babies, mother doesn't outwardly carry the dwarfing gene and daddy certainly didn't either but he has imported blood lines which could be a 50/50 crapshoot that 3-4 gens back he very well could have ancestors with a dwarf gene. The 2 babies produced, both girls, one looks chinchilla, one looks squirrel (the dilute of chinchilla, also a recessive gene). The chinchilla is a small doe, a little substandard in conformation, long ears, narrower face, just maybe a good brood doe. Now the squirrel who obviously DOES show the dwarfing gene as she is a good 25% smaller than her sister has MUCH better conformation, everything almost to standard, so saying the dwarfing gene can always produce negative mutations can be a bit incorrect. If you DOUBLE the dwarfing gene, as in BOTH parents outwardly show signs of the dwarf gene and it is proven thru test breeding, then you know you can breed that dwarf positive animal with a non-dwarf carrier and produce the perfect offspring free of defect or deficite, yet still considered a true dwarf because it carries the gene. Like I stated above tho breed 2 dwarf positive rabbits and the litter is all penuts. When it is the dominant trait it does cause genetic defect.

So this is just to hopefully give Jordan a little better insight to the dwarf gene, as far as how it applies to herps, I could only imagin similarly, but I'm no pro...

 

[GeckoGathering]

Dwarfs, Giants, Small

okay cheers for your answers, i guess i understand. Its just i know of some people with dwarf geckos that dont have any problems, so if they were to breed them and make a dwarf gene with no related problems...? Im sure someone on this forum actually had a dwarf gecko as well actually. Cant remember who it was, but if they see this theyll probably mention.

So ive got a small gecko, its not much smaller than normal sized, but next to a normal sized its noticably smaller, how would i know if its a dwarf or just a small gecko? because i dont want to be really called unethical for test breeding this gecko to find out if its small or a dwarf. And if it is just a small gecko do you reckon years of line breeding can make a polygenic trait of a smaller gecko?
and last of all my other point what if people with dwarfs with no problems, bred for a dwarf gene that carries with it no issues, so its just basically the same as giant but its dwarf.

Hi Jordan.
Thought maybe you had a gecko in question about
being a dwarf. Didn't see one in your album.
First I have one. She just turned two.
I have done a bit of reading on different
types of dwarfism. That being on humans.
IMO at least some of those known publishings
can be associated with animals.
I agree somewhat to your giant/dwarf statements.
They can both develop similar problems in structure,
breeding, and shorter lifetime.
Since there is more than one type of dwarf it
can take a bit of time to call it one.
(links available ..PM request)
Spider, my present dwarf is a easy call as she has
a skeletal high defect. Making her body shape look
more like a pocket watch.
Take care. Hj

 

[Jordan]

Okay cheers guys, that provided me with a lot of info, and ive definitely got my answer, thanks again.

I did sort of have a gecko in question but after reading this i can safely say that she's just a small gecko, she just looks normal and heck shes not even that much smaller.
But i did feel the need to know a bit more about dwarfism before proceeding with breeding her.
So thanks everyone.