Butterworms

[katie_]

Ive seen a few people here group butterworms into the same "treat" catagory as wax worms.
I did some research and butterworms do not looks like that are as fattening as waxworms at all.
Anyone have a RELIABLE source of information, so I can know for sure?

 

[Notmyfault]

I think they're considered a treat mainly because you can't have them on a staple diet of butterworms. They may not be as fatty as waxworms, however they are fattier than most other feeders out there. Also they're quite expensive so unless you have deep pockets and really thin geckos, I wouldn't be feeding these all too often.

 

[katie_]

The fat content of a butterworm is very close to that of a superworm, and a lot of people use superworms as a staple.
I'm not worried about price, as a have a decent supplier.
Hornworms are a little big for some of my juvies, and I have heard that superworms dont have much to offer.

 

[Dimidiata]

It was my understanding that we cant use them as a staple partly because of their acidic nature. They are very very acidic and can "burn" the gecko if fed to often. This was just what ive always been told

 

[katie_]

Very strange.
I would just love to find a healthy staple thats not crickets. Dubias are illegal here so theyre out of the question.
Ive always heared that mealies and supers are chitin and fat, and unless gutloaded they are useless.
Hornworms are a good staple for my adults, but its hard to find teeny ones for the juvies.

 

[Dimidiata]

meh i use supers. Ive had no problems. They are supposed to less fat and chitin then mealies with similar nutrition as crickets. NOW, granted i just got a weight on rango tonight, shes in he 80-85gram area. I cannot connect this to her food though as it may just be her general size.

 

[katie_]

Supers are available, but they bite. One bit my bubblegum in the mouth, and he had a scab for weeks.
I know I could cut the heads off, but with ten leos, thats a lot of decapitating.
I just have a buttload of butters and would love to be able to use them more than once a week.

 

[grboxa]

I think it was on this forum where someone posted about there experience with the butter worm and how some of the juices squirted out and burned there gecko. I wanted to try them as a weekend treat, but after that story, kind of turned me away. I'm sure it was a rare circumstance, or else you would hear about it more commonly, but still. And katie, why dont you try silkworms as a majority staple? great nutrition like hornworms, there basically the majority for my leos diet with a few things mixed in here and there ofcourse.

 

[katie_]

I think it was on this forum where someone posted about there experience with the butter worm and how some of the juices squirted out and burned there gecko. I wanted to try them as a weekend treat, but after that story, kind of turned me away. I'm sure it was a rare circumstance, or else you would hear about it more commonly, but still. And katie, why dont you try silkworms as a majority staple? great nutrition like hornworms, there basically the majority for my leos diet with a few things mixed in here and there ofcourse.

How did they know it was the worm juices that caused the burn? That sounds horrible :S
I have tried Silks, and they liked them - but my supplier doesnt have the best quality silkworms. They are SUPER tiny, and don't last very long (even with food).
I may try to find another person to supply me with JUST silks, as I like my current supplier for everything else.
In my experience, butters havent been as bad as their reputation, and their nutrional info on the net doesnt seem to bad.. I just wonder where this bad rap came from?
I feed my leos butters once a week, where my frind doesnt feed butters at all. My leos grow much faster than his, and this is the only difference we have in diet and over all care.

 

[Dimidiata]

Kate trust me, ive read numerous accounts of the SAME thing. Look it up if you dont belive me.

 

[katie_]

Oh no, I trust you. I have just NEVER heard of that before, and it sounds horrible.
What do the burns look like? Are they serious?

 

[Dimidiata]

Tacky patches around the animals mouths, of course they vary and it has to be a steady diet. Think of eating lemons all day everyday(assuming they were of proper nutrition)
http://www.pangeareptile.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-36085.html
http://bamboozoo.weebly.com/butterworm-caution.html

 

[katie_]

Very strange. Those seem to be all cresties and other rhacs. I wonder if its only those species that are affected, as Ive been feeding butters for years with no problems.
I probably wont stop feeding them all together to be honest, but I will be on the lookout.

 

[Dimidiata]

Oh no, i didnt mean for you to stop . I was just offering up a possible reason these guys arnt common staple. It could also just be that they are pricey ???

 

[animeavatar]

How about silkworms as a staple( smaller ones for the babies)? They are pricy but at least you can breed them.

 

[wgparks]

butter worms and superworms are terrible staples, the best staple is phoenix worms or silk worms, but my leo will not touch silk worms, only phoenix. the calcium : phosphorous levels in the phoenix worms are ideal and a very low fat count, they are smaller feeders but they are a lot cheaper than hornworms, butter worms, and super worms

 

[30secondstobob]

About the butter worms causing acid burns? I'm not saying it can't happen and the pictures do seem to indicate that something did happen to those baby cresties. But...... playing the common sense police here, wouldn't consuming them cause burns to the mouth, tounge, throat, esophagus, etc.? And once burned, wouldn't the gecko not want to eat one again? I'm not saying that they don't contain some kind of acid as many insects do, but if it were so vile and caustic, why do the leos like them so much? Many insect larvae such as the monarch and oleander catepillar taste bad or derive poison from their food to discourage predation and once consumed a predator will usually never consume one again. I have given butter worms as an occasional treat (and they are always eagerly devoured), but as others have mentioned they are too pricey to be practical. It would cost me more in a month to feed my three adult leos butter worms, than the total food bill for my two dogs and five cats. I kid you not. Bob

 

[Dimidiata]

As its stated, it takes time. Its not one or 2 worms and all of a sudden your burned. It was the staple diet of them. Eating them every day. As compared to eating say a lemon once, yeah big deal. But eating lemons all day will cause citric burns on your mouth, probably not to much to the esophagus and stomach due to the lining of mucus so by the time they burn their mouth on it they are done.

 

[katie_]

I have never seen phoenix worms available by any supplier. Maybe they arent available in Canada?
Hmm, I think I'm stuck with terrible crickets as a main staple for right now, until my supplier gets his act together regarding his silkworms.

 

[grboxa]

Katie the only place that I know of that had phoenix worms in canada was big al's in Mississauga and recorp feeder company based somewhere around here, when I asked why they stopped selling them at al's the employee told me they werent selling. Sucks, I would be all over those right now. If your anywhere near square one shopping mall in Misissauga, they have a reptile shop there called PJ's, I get mine from there, great silkworms since they changed suppliers. Mabye it's worth a trip once a week?.